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Author Topic: Prosign CT, CL , AS, SN, KN (+)  (Read 8610 times)
LB5KE
Member

Posts: 141




Ignore
« on: May 02, 2012, 07:24:38 AM »

Are they in use anymore ?
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K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3958




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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 08:24:06 AM »

KE:  I think some of us old timers use most of these.... however, the users are becoming fewer and fewer.
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PA0BLAH
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 09:35:06 AM »

As far as I know CL and KN are not transmitted as one character code. C character space L and K characterspace N.


Bob
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W0WCA
Member

Posts: 39




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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 05:07:02 AM »

Yes, KN a and AS.
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K9MRD
Member

Posts: 331




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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 07:58:21 AM »

As far as I know CL and KN are not transmitted as one character code. C character space L and K characterspace N.


Bob

I have always sent these as one character without a space....maybe I have been doing it wrong for 54 years. :~)

Wayne
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K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3958




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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 09:24:36 AM »

I've also been sending them as one character for 55 years.   Roll Eyes
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LB3KB
Member

Posts: 233


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 01:58:14 PM »

There is a lot of confusion around CL and KN, and apparently no official reference.

I think PA0BLAH may be technically correct, but people send these two as prosigns as well as abbreviations all the time.

One document at the ARRL web site claims that CL is a prosign and that KN is not.  It's in section II.9.3 in this file.  I'm sure others are able to dig up references that contradict that.

73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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STAYVERTICAL
Member

Posts: 875




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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 03:34:23 PM »

Hi All,

KN (sent as one character) is punctuation, used as an opening parenthesis "(" and KK (sent as one character) is used as a closing parenthesis ")".

If you use KN as two characters at the end of transmission, it signifies you only wish your contact to reply (no breakers).
Otherwise you just use K at the end of an over.
K at the end of an over is "invitation to transmit".

Prosigns are sent as one character as a rule.
Some people who use PC morse generators find sending prosigns as one character difficult, so that is why you often hear them as two.

Another interesting bit of trivia is that SOS, the international distress call (CW), is also sent as one character, not S  O  S.
Technically, SOS is not the distress call, but the entire element. SOS is just a nice way of remembering it.
It could also be described as VTB, but that is not as memorable.
I believe it is the only morse character to have nine elements.

In my experience the prosigns are not used much these days, except maybe AS (wait a minute),  SK/VA (end of transmission),
and AR (end of over).

73s


« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 04:28:44 PM by STAYVERTICAL » Logged
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2825




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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 09:46:08 PM »

The "CT", sent as one character,  is regularly used by Japanese hams (mostly during JA-to-JA QSOs) to indicate that what immediately follows will be in Japanese Morse, called "Wabun" or "Kana Code". 

To indicate that they're going back to International Morse, they use "AL", sent as one character.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
N3QE
Member

Posts: 2345




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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2012, 05:56:11 AM »

KN (sent as one character) is punctuation, used as an opening parenthesis "(" and KK (sent as one character) is used as a closing parenthesis ")".

That's what I call "keyboard Morse". That may be how it appears on some Wikipedia page, it may be in some standards doc, and it is commonly how the prosign is sent using keyboard Morse generators, but it is not the way it has actually used on the ham bands for my time as a ham.

Tim.
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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2825




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2012, 10:02:23 AM »

The Navy Radioman schools until sometime just after 1963, when I went to the one in San Diego, taught KK (as one character) as BOTH left and right paren.  We were taught that if we heard KK and there hadn't been one earlier, we typed a left parenthesis and waited until the next KK to type the right-hand one.

Then there went forth from the Mountain a decree that KN would thereafter be the left paren and KK would be the right paren.  There was some minor confusion among the CW operators, but not enough to worry about.  Parentheses weren't used that much, anyway.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
LB3KB
Member

Posts: 233


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2012, 11:16:10 AM »

KN (sent as one character) is punctuation, used as an opening parenthesis "(" and KK (sent as one character) is used as a closing parenthesis ")".

That's what I call "keyboard Morse". That may be how it appears on some Wikipedia page, it may be in some standards doc, and it is commonly how the prosign is sent using keyboard Morse generators, but it is not the way it has actually used on the ham bands for my time as a ham.

The parenthesis are in the ITU standard.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 2345




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 12:30:09 PM »

The parenthesis are in the ITU standard.

That's just fine. KN with a bar over it, has been in the ARRL handbook as "you and you only go ahead" for most of a century. I never saw the ITU standard till today, Same thing for a lot of other "Keyboard Morse" interpretations. BT overbar being confused with "equals sign" is the other thing that "Keyboard Morse" folks like to point out too. Doesn't change anything, CW hams who don't know what to say next still send BT BT BT until their brain catches up, just like in the last century :-)
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LB5KE
Member

Posts: 141




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 03:07:59 PM »

The "CT", sent as one character,  is regularly used by Japanese hams (mostly during JA-to-JA QSOs) to indicate that what immediately follows will be in Japanese Morse, called "Wabun" or "Kana Code". 

To indicate that they're going back to International Morse, they use "AL", sent as one character.

I thought they used the prosign "DO" ?   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabun_code
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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2825




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2012, 09:41:19 PM »

The "CT", sent as one character,  is regularly used by Japanese hams (mostly during JA-to-JA QSOs) to indicate that what immediately follows will be in Japanese Morse, called "Wabun" or "Kana Code". 

To indicate that they're going back to International Morse, they use "AL", sent as one character.

I thought they used the prosign "DO" ?   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabun_code

Oops!  You're right.  I was thinking of the "CT" - or "NK" in the way I write it - as the syllable "sa", as in "sayonara", which is one of the things I use most in JA contacts.

The first time I heard "DO" was many years ago, before I'd ever heard of Wabun.  I heard a JA station calling what sounded like "CQ NJ".  At least, that's how my on-board decoder understood it.  Problem was that there was no New Jersey QSO Party going on right then  Grin .

A few days later I was chatting with an old JA friend.  I innocently asked him about all the JA stations calling "CQ New Jersey". Then, in between "HI HI HI HI", he told me he would mail me all the information I needed.  Yes, snail mail.  This was in the mid-1970s

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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
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