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Author Topic: The ongoing push of Ham Radio to EMCOMM  (Read 82869 times)
LA9XSA
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2012, 07:23:06 AM »

Actually the latest public relations push from the ARRL is focusing on makers, hackers and DIY.
The media and the politicians seem to be most interested in emcomm, so it makes sense that the ARRL keeps that on the forefront as well.
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K5WCF
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Posts: 25




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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »

thank you I stand corrected. The ARRL did by way of their new introduction to Amateur Radio video try and get the attention of the maker community, and for that I thank them. However they need to work to keep that and other areas of the hobby prominent in their attempt to make the hobby pertinent in today's world.

William K5WCF
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LA9XSA
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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2012, 12:52:40 PM »

Beside their website and magazine QST, and their Washington lobbyists, the I think the ARRL's biggest public face today is Field Day.

Field Day helps promote both the "when all else fails" aspect of the hobby, with its focus on portable operation, the international friendship aspect of talking to people around the world, and contesting (yes it is also a contest  Wink ). Amateurs who want more focus on other aspects of their hobby should perhaps organize events for it at Field Day, invite the public, press and public officials to promote those parts of the hobby. Some Field Day and JOTA groups already hold soldering courses for beginners, RDF competitions, etc. at Field Day.
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AE6RV
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Posts: 146




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« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2012, 03:33:36 PM »

Troll.
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WB6DGN
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Posts: 584




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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2012, 01:51:51 AM »

Quote
Unfortunately, the other great failing of folks in our hobby today is lack of tolerance and respect for other people's opinions and ideas.

Unfortunately, this failing is not unique to amateur radio in this country (USA).  Sadly, in my opinion, this seems to be a universal characteristic of the American People.  Just when this happened, I really can't say, it seems to have "snuck up" on us over the last couple decades to the point where, today, it is rampant.  Obesity, sugar, smoking, the choice of vehicles (pity the poor Prius owner) are just some of the things that make people a victim of scorn by their peers.  Now, I'm not arguing the deleterious effects of some of these things; that's NOT the point I'm trying to make here.   Instead, my point is that people are denigrated, insulted and even condemned NOT because these activities are intrinsically BAD, but rather, because the person doing the condemning is not interested in doing them.  What happened to that glorious concept, once common in America, of LIVE AND LET LIVE!???  Why am I the "BAD GUY" because I choose to conduct my life in a manner different from you, or you, or you? 
If anyone here thinks that ham radio is going to change and its diverse opportunities are going to be accepted en masse by all participants, I'VE GOT A NEWS FLASH FOR YOU.  NOT until the attitude in America changes BACK to the LIVE AND LET LIVE concept that ONCE made this country the "greatest place in all the world to live".
Tom WB6DGN
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5855




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« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2012, 08:07:30 AM »

You're right, Tom.  Unfortunately, most of America today is peppered with the "know-it-alls" who can't wait to show how much they think they know, aren't afraid of saying so, delight in calling down others, be downright insulting while doing so--and get had as he!! when their opinion is questioned.

Too bad, and sad to boot, but that's the way it seems to be these days.
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W5DQ
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Posts: 1209


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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2012, 05:51:41 PM »

As for the "HI, Hi" nonsense, it is losing favor through ham social mores and the age old cure of tribe banishment. In other words, no one will talk to you if you act like that on the air. Cry    

Pure BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If someone is put off so much from my use of "HI HI" in voice comms that they feel compelled to shun me, then I say "Good On Them". I don't want to talk to those sort of 'jerks' anyway. I use "HI HI" both in CW and voice (hell I even use it RTTY so I guess that makes me really a rabblerouser, doesn't it!!). I bet the majority of dual mode (CW & voice) ops do. That's perfectly well as we don't need newbie types coming into ham radio wanting to change the 'historical' and accepted modes, methods and traditions just because they are too new-school (or whatever the accepted lingo is for it). If you can't join an organization and accept their rituals and traditions, then don't bother coming around. They probably don't want you and I know ....

WE DON'T NEED THAT TYPE IN HAM RADIO!!!!


Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2012, 05:42:00 AM »

When people use "HI HI" (hai hai) on voice, I tend to answer "hello hello".  Cheesy
A better rendition of HI HI in voice is to laugh like this: hahahaha ha ha! hahahaha ha ha!
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W5DQ
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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2012, 09:01:56 AM »

When people use "HI HI" (hai hai) on voice, I tend to answer "hello hello".  Cheesy
A better rendition of HI HI in voice is to laugh like this: hahahaha ha ha! hahahaha ha ha!

Totally acceptable but to be so shallow as to ostracize someone over the use of an acceptable tradition of ham radio is pure male bovine excrement!!!

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
N2EY
Member

Posts: 3835




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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2012, 11:30:46 AM »

Quote
Unfortunately, the other great failing of folks in our hobby today is lack of tolerance and respect for other people's opinions and ideas.

Unfortunately, this failing is not unique to amateur radio in this country (USA).  Sadly, in my opinion, this seems to be a universal characteristic of the American People.  Just when this happened, I really can't say, it seems to have "snuck up" on us over the last couple decades to the point where, today, it is rampant.  Obesity, sugar, smoking, the choice of vehicles (pity the poor Prius owner) are just some of the things that make people a victim of scorn by their peers.  Now, I'm not arguing the deleterious effects of some of these things; that's NOT the point I'm trying to make here.   Instead, my point is that people are denigrated, insulted and even condemned NOT because these activities are intrinsically BAD, but rather, because the person doing the condemning is not interested in doing them.  What happened to that glorious concept, once common in America, of LIVE AND LET LIVE!???  Why am I the "BAD GUY" because I choose to conduct my life in a manner different from you, or you, or you? 

Because often the manner you choose affects those around you in a negative way. And because at least some of those activities are, indeed, intrinsically BAD.


If anyone here thinks that ham radio is going to change and its diverse opportunities are going to be accepted en masse by all participants, I'VE GOT A NEWS FLASH FOR YOU.  NOT until the attitude in America changes BACK to the LIVE AND LET LIVE concept that ONCE made this country the "greatest place in all the world to live".

When was "live and let live" the concept in the USA?

I'm old enough to remember when people whose "lifestyles" were even a little unusual were shunned and discriminated against. When millions of folks were denied equal opportunities and rights because they were the "wrong" gender, religion, or ethnicity. When Conformity was a major requirement for Success in many areas.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KI4SDY
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Posts: 1452




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« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2012, 07:33:00 PM »

In a true Socialist Society, everyone is considered politically correct, no matter what their behavior. At least that is the theory. In reality, all Socialist Societies become exploitive, intolerant and oppressive. For those who are interested in this kind of environment, there is a boat leaving for Cuba tomorrow! Grin

I think the rest of us will rather stick with the freedom to choose who we want to associate with, along with all the other rights guaranteed by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Wink 
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GREGWTH7MMMAG
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Posts: 30




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« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2012, 09:08:39 AM »

KB8VUL:
With the vastness of the hobby, if you dont like participating in emcomm, then dont.  You aren't required to do so, and if the fact others do so to the point that it embarasses you, underscores that there is a deeper problem then merely lights and antennas on a vehicle,lol. 

Its nice that some areas of the country are well developed, and have high population densities that reliance on ham radio isn't needed.  Not all places are this way, such as when you cross the mississippi.  Tornadoes, wildfires, earthquakes etc. bring infrastructure to its knees, and the gov't has proved its inability to react in disaster rapidly, over and over again. 
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KD0PWN
KO3D
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Posts: 49




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« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2012, 10:18:08 AM »

The EMCOMMers get very upset when anyone questions their portion of the hobby as not being the whole reason for ham radio. ARRL promotes EMCOMM because it helps their bottom line and they mistakenly believe it will save us from losing our spectrum to 4G. I'm not claiming there isn't a need for amateur emergency communications. But I am upset by the obsession with ARES at the local club level.

This isn't Haiti. In the typical town, multiple communications systems would have to go down before ARES became relevant. The primary cellular system, the back-up cellular system, the tertiary portable cell towers; primary and secondary LE/FD/EMS repeaters, mobile command posts and simplex communications. If your area doesn't have these, you should probably spend your time at government meetings trying to get them then worrying about standing on the side of the road with an HT during an ARES marathon race.
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WB4LCN
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Posts: 133


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« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2012, 01:09:21 PM »

One of the most dangerous things to a totalitarian government (besides the Internet) is it's citizens having a way to communicate to each other and the outside world. That government would want to end the public use of the spectrum.
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First, make it work, then make it pretty.
Yaesu Rigs: Kenwood TS-480HX, FT-8900R, FTM-350AR (Bluetooth motorcycle mobile), VX-8DR, SB-102 boat anchor (built one as a kid)

Moderate Spock: "Live for a reasonable amount of time and scrape by."
KS4VT
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Posts: 141




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« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2012, 01:44:36 PM »

There are also some serious liability issues that FEMA just released in a recent document.  I posted it on QRZ and below is the link and a condensed version of the important facts of the 30+ pages.  For me, I dropped out of ecomm after being educated as to the personal liability that I choose not to expose myself to.  My professional position involves public safety communications, but during my off-hours, I'm just going to chat on the amateur radio.

In the below, just replace CERT with ARES or RACES while reading it.

http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/dow...lity_Guide.pdf
 
The CERT Liability Guide is offered for general informational purposes only. It does
not provide legal advice, and the user is encouraged to seek out state specific
legal advice from a qualified attorney before taking any action. Keep in mind
that, with a few limitations, anyone can file a lawsuit against anyone else.
Nothing, including following the recommendations in this Guide, is a guarantee
against being sued.
 ________________________________________
 
CERT programs must be affiliated with or sponsored by a local government agency, and
engage in operational activities only under the command and control of that
agency. Thus, CERT programs do not operate without the confidence of
professional emergency response agencies, and those agencies are more likely to
have confidence in a CERT program that takes steps to manage
risk.
 ________________________________________
 
Some potential CERT members may be concerned about personal liability or about being injured or
contracting an illness during CERT activities, and they may decline to
participate if not protected. Providing liability protection and injury benefits
limits this barrier and conveys the message that CERT members are a valuable
part of the sponsor's team.
 ________________________________________
 
CERT programs establish a separate nonprofit organization, or are sponsored by an educational or
business entity, but they must always be endorsed by local government.
 
Managing risk is an ongoing process, so support must be nurtured, expanded, and revisited when
 circumstances change or new information is identified.
 
First, consider the different types of civil liability that volunteers and CERT programs should be aware of.
Civil liability results when there is legal basis for holding someone responsible for injury or damage.
The four main types of civil liability that apply to CERT programs include:
 
• Negligent acts or omissions —The failure to fulfill a duty to use ordinary care,
which is the care that a reasonable person would use under similar
circumstances. Any activity in which carelessness can cause injury or property
damage may be considered negligent.
 
• Intentional acts — Intentionally
committed wrongful act; this may require proof that person intended to cause
harm.
 
• Strict liability — Legal responsibility for damages based on the
nature of an activity, rather than on a negligent or intentional act. Because
CERT members are trained only to respond to events they're capable and trained
to handle, strict liability exposure is limited.
 
• Liability for the acts of others — Legally responsible for actions of someone
you have the right to control. An employer is usually liable for job-related actions of its employee.
Failing to screen or train a volunteer may result in CERT program being liable.
 ________________________________________
 When adopting an activation strategy, it is important to understand that there is no activation
approach that guarantees against liability. On its face, self activation may
appear to insulate the program leaders and the sponsoring organization from
liability by separating them from deployment or direction of members. This fails
to recognize two important factors.
 
First, there are links with the CERT program even if members self-activate.
 • Self-activation may be pursuant to a standing order, and not all that different – for liability purposes – from an
order to activate issued at the time of an emergency.
 • CERT programs have multiple points of contact with their members. Even if its members
self-activate, an injured person might argue that the CERT program has put the
member in a position to respond and that CERT training shaped their actions. An
injured member might argue that CERT training did not adequately prepare for the
situation encountered.
 • By accepting members and instructing them to self-activate, some might argue that the CERT program has implicitly made a
decision that the members are capable of responding without supervision, and an
injured person may question that decision.
 • Even self-activated CERT members can appear to the public to be acting on behalf of the CERT program if they
carry officially issued CERT identification, wear CERT identifying vests or
personal protective equipment, or identify themselves as CERT members during a
response.
 
Any of the above might be argued as grounds for program liability, even if CERT members self-activate.
 
Second, self-activation does not offer the risk control benefits of program activation for specific
emergencies. A CERT that activates its members to respond to specific
emergencies may reduce the chance that its members will respond to situations
that are beyond their capabilities. If CERT program activation enhances
oversight at the emergency scene, it can also help ensure that members work
within their level of training and comply with the CERT program's rules. Both of
these effects reduce, although they do not eliminate, the chances of
liability.
 
Another concern is that self-activation may prevent CERT members from qualifying for liability protection under various federal and state
laws. This will be discussed further below in Providing benefits for injured CERT members and Protecting CERT members from liability.
 
Neither activation strategy eliminates a CERT program's potential liability for the acts
of, or injuries to, its members. Each program should analyze the risks and
benefits of each approach and choose the strategy that is most effective for its
needs. Then acknowledge and manage the remaining
risks.
 ________________________________________
 Protection from the financial effects of liability.
 Even the best risk control program cannot eliminate all liability. There remains a small but real chance of an injury,
property damage, or other harm. A sponsoring agency has this; residual; risk
from all of its activities – whether or not it sponsors a CERT program. The cost
of damages, defending a claim or lawsuit, and providing injury benefits can be
substantial, so no risk management program is complete until there is a plan to
pay these costs. Recruiting members is also easier if there is a plan to protect
volunteers from liability and to provide them with benefits if they are injured
or become ill. While CERT programs are most often sponsored by a local
government agency, incorporated nonprofit organizations, businesses, or
educational institutions may coordinate training and organize teams. In
addition, a few CERT programs have established separate nonprofit organizations
to raise funds. Thus, more than one legal entity can be involved in a CERT, and
each is responsible for protecting itself and its officials, employees, and
volunteers from the financial effects of liability. Protection for one person or
legal entity – whether by law or insurance – does not automatically protect
others.
 ________________________________________
 Even if CERT members cannot receive administrative workers' compensation benefits, that does not
preclude liability for their injuries or illnesses. An injured CERT member who
is not eligible for workers' compensation benefits can file a civil lawsuit
seeking lost wages, medical costs, pain and suffering, and other damages from an
injury caused by the act or omission of someone else. Potential targets of
lawsuits include the sponsoring agency or local government, other volunteers,
trainers and team leaders, to name a few. The lawsuit will fail, however, unless
the target was at fault, the fault caused the injury and resulting damages, and
the target of the lawsuit is not protected by governmental or another statutory
immunity.
 ________________________________________
 The VPA excludes protection for volunteers who are operating a motor vehicle or other vehicle for
which the state requires an operator's license or insurance. It also excludes
volunteers who are performing acts for which the volunteers are not
appropriately licensed or are not within their area of responsibility. It
provides only immunity, and thus does not provide for payment of legal defense
costs, judgments, and settlements. It does not protect against liability for
gross negligence, willful and wanton negligence, or similar extreme
conduct.
 ________________________________________
 Emergency management and homeland security laws:
State emergency management and homeland security statutes may provide limited
immunity from liability to individual CERT members who are working as registered
emergency or disaster workers. These laws sometimes provide indemnity as well.
They are most likely to protect CERT members who are ordered to activate and
participate in an official emergency response under the direction of an
emergency response agency. Members who self-activate under a standing order or
standard operating procedure may also be protected. Members who self-deploy
without any order are less likely to be protected by emergency management laws,
but they may still benefit from Good Samaritan protection. Check with an
attorney or risk manager to determine how activation methods affect CERT
members' liability protection. Historically, organizations (such as businesses)
that volunteer their resources in an emergency have not been provided with
similar liability protection. As the important role of businesses and nonprofit
organizations in emergency response has become more apparent, however, there is
increasing attention to protecting them as well. State laws are thus beginning
to incorporate protection for these important partners.
 ________________________________________
 Liability insurance/self-insurance. Liability insurance is a form of indemnity and is an
important tool for protecting CERT members. It does not prevent an injured party
from suing and recovering damages, but, from a CERT member's perspective, the
protection of good liability insurance can be broader than immunity. Liability
insurance that covers emergency management volunteers is less likely to have
some of the exclusions and limitations that leave gaps in the protection offered
by immunity statutes, and, unlike immunity laws, liability insurance also
provides funds to pay defense costs, settlements, and judgments.

Here is the QRZ link with a bunch of reader comments...
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?354560-Interesting-FEMA-Document
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