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Author Topic: Can I learn CW with LCWO.net?  (Read 23151 times)
M0LEP
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Posts: 212




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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 02:41:53 AM »

Would lcwo.net be a good way to learn CW?

It does offer some useful features, and it has disadvantages. Same, but in different ways, applies to other software training tools. There is no "best". Don't believe all the advice you get. Don't expect miracles. Don't be afraid to change course...
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KK0G
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Posts: 47


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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2012, 07:35:33 AM »

So,

Now everything is said, just as so often already in the past in this forum section.
It is repeated and repeated agn cuz Topic Starters are askers, asking is easy.
It are not investigators, because the info is readily available in previous postings.
Questioners are normally guys with less perseverance abilities.  Just that is what is required.

(BTW You CAN learn CW, on LCWO, which means Learn CW on line) A language is not a mathematical construct, but is a living structure, it changes with time, and CW is at present day the same meaning as Morse Telegraphy.

Morse code is NOT a language with 41 words but a phonetic alphabet. So you have to translate character by character, give you a hard time when you want to conversate with Japan or China. But the supremacy of the western world (like a star still shining but already dead and away for light years) urge people to think that the code is universal. It is not.

And just as in the past, after collection the enthusiast congrats by the CW fraternity, we probably never hear agn something.
People make plans, and when they meet some difficulty they just stop.

Quote
Winston Churchill said it best...
Never, never, never give up.

Does that mean that when you think: I am going to learn the code such and such proficiency is my goal, and you experience that it is going to cost you  lots of time, to get it done, much more then expected, that you have to go on? Even when you think after a year: It is not worth so much time, I can spent that time better on education, reading Plato or whatever, you may not stop, because Churchill should have said something ?  When you have to walk south and during walking North you find out it is the wrong direction, return on your steps or go on walking North over the long path?

People married, promised each other for life. Over 30% divorces, Churchill should have prohibited that.
He was divorced himself, wasn't he? All those people bishops monks priests leaving churches/religions etc etc.


Is it true that you can use CW for a lot of things? Can hardly believe that. It takes two to tango.

Me and my computer.

SQUIRREL!!
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2825




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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2012, 02:30:36 PM »

(BTW You CAN learn CW, on LCWO, which means Learn CW on line) A language is not a mathematical construct, but is a living structure, it changes with time, and CW is at present day the same meaning as Morse Telegraphy.

A man asked his son, "How many fingers do you have?"  The kid replied, "Ten."

"No," said the man.  "You have eight." 

"But I count my thumbs as fingers," said the boy.

"There's the problem, son," said the man.  "Calling a thumb a finger doesn't make it so."

Neither does calling CW "Morse Code" make it "Morse Code".
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
PA0BLAH
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2012, 03:34:27 PM »



A man asked his son, "How many fingers do you have?"  The kid replied, "Ten."

"No," said the man.  "You have eight." 


We , here in Holland, don't have ten fingers and two thumbs, however Touch Typing is literally translated "Ten finger blind typing"

When you ask the guy here "How many fingers do you have?" He promptly answers: "I have ten digits."
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AB9NZ
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Posts: 177




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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2012, 05:30:25 PM »

I'm starting to like this PAOBLAH fella, especially his address of the pedantic reminders that cw isn't Morse code. Language is always in flux, and calling amateur radio telegraphy "CW" is commonplace, and I think appropriate. Carlo Consoli, IK0YGJ in his free E-book "ZEN AND THE ART OF RADIOTELEGRAPHY" discusses this issue in the section called "CW: the Esperanto of the Third Millenium". I hope everybody will take a look. Best of 73 de Tom, AB9NZ
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KK0G
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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2012, 07:33:21 PM »

When you ask the guy here "How many fingers do you have?" He promptly answers: "I have ten digits."

Then he didn't answer the question.
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AE7UT
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Posts: 72




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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2012, 10:01:24 PM »

PA0BLAH toen ik negenteen was wilde ik Nederlands leren.  Binnen twee maanden kon ik een conversatie in het Nederlands houden.  Dat was bijna diertig jaaren geleden een ik heb veel, veel vergeten.  Het spijt mij heel slecht Nederlands.  Ik wonde in Nederland voor vier manden en daar  leerde ik veel meer om dat ik het moest gebruiken,.  Ik heb ook in Turkije gewond en daar turks geleerd.  Ik had een heel moi vriendin in Turkije dus had ik Turks moest leren kenen!

PA0BLAH you may not be aware that your post to me sounds like your tired of people asking questions about learning code/CW/Morse. 
I asked tons of questions and was very glad people gave me some direction and encouragement.  Just like training for a marathon (I'm referring to the really long foot race) there are many ways of training.  Do you think a 49 year old and a 19 year old should use the same training schedule?  As we age our bodies and our brains react differently to stimuli and stress.  I may have been reading into his post but I inferred he was asking how a man of 49 would best be served to learn code.

When people train for long races it's also nice to have a cohort of friends or training partners to keep one motivated and staying the course.  I find it rare that men of 49 have such a local cadre when it comes to morse code.  That is why many people like myself turn to forums like this.  To find people they can rely on for support, advice, encouragement and friendship.  You sir seem to have a disconcerting lack of insight into this.  Perhaps you should spend some of your energy and time posting on a psychology forum looking into your motivation for thwarting the endeavors of people like Wayne.

Happy Fourth of July everyone
73
Stan AE7UT
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HA7AP
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Posts: 19




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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2012, 10:59:37 PM »

PA0BLAH toen ik negenteen was wilde ik Nederlands leren.  Binnen twee maanden kon ik een conversatie in het Nederlands houden.  Dat was bijna diertig jaaren geleden een ik heb veel, veel vergeten.  Het spijt mij heel slecht Nederlands.  Ik wonde in Nederland voor vier manden en daar  leerde ik veel meer om dat ik het moest gebruiken,.  Ik heb ook in Turkije gewond en daar turks geleerd.  Ik had een heel moi vriendin in Turkije dus had ik Turks moest leren kenen!

PA0BLAH you may not be aware that your post to me sounds like your tired of people asking questions about learning code/CW/Morse. 
I asked tons of questions and was very glad people gave me some direction and encouragement.  Just like training for a marathon (I'm referring to the really long foot race) there are many ways of training.  Do you think a 49 year old and a 19 year old should use the same training schedule?  As we age our bodies and our brains react differently to stimuli and stress.  I may have been reading into his post but I inferred he was asking how a man of 49 would best be served to learn code.

When people train for long races it's also nice to have a cohort of friends or training partners to keep one motivated and staying the course.  I find it rare that men of 49 have such a local cadre when it comes to morse code.  That is why many people like myself turn to forums like this.  To find people they can rely on for support, advice, encouragement and friendship.  You sir seem to have a disconcerting lack of insight into this.  Perhaps you should spend some of your energy and time posting on a psychology forum looking into your motivation for thwarting the endeavors of people like Wayne.

Happy Fourth of July everyone
73
Stan AE7UT


Hi Stan!
Actually, it doesn't matter how old are you.
Learning code is very similar to learning languages, although a younger person can learn way faster, that's all !!
1st learn the alphabet
2nd learn the sound of words
3rd Expand your vocabulary and practice on or the air what have you learned.
4th practice, practice, and more practice!!!
sometimes people just over complicated it.
If you think it's hard, then it will be hard.
You also need to enjoy it and look at it as an easy thing to do.

73 Imi HA7AP
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 04:03:04 PM »

PA0BLAH toen ik negenteen was wilde ik Nederlands leren.  Binnen twee maanden kon ik een conversatie in het Nederlands houden.  Dat was bijna diertig jaaren geleden een ik heb veel, veel vergeten.  Het spijt mij heel slecht Nederlands.  Ik wonde in Nederland voor vier manden en daar  leerde ik veel meer om dat ik het moest gebruiken,.  Ik heb ook in Turkije gewond en daar turks geleerd.  Ik had een heel moi vriendin in Turkije dus had ik Turks moest leren kenen!
Amazing Stan, your Dutch is still very understandable, congrats!

Quote
PA0BLAH you may not be aware that your post to me sounds like your tired of people asking questions about learning code/CW/Morse.  
I asked tons of questions and was very glad people gave me some direction and encouragement.  Just like training for a marathon (I'm referring to the really long foot race) there are many ways of training.  Do you think a 49 year old and a 19 year old should use the same training schedule?  As we age our bodies and our brains react differently to stimuli and stress.  I may have been reading into his post but I inferred he was asking how a man of 49 would best be served to learn code.

When I should be tired, I shouldn't read here and reply, quite simple.
However two points:
1. Somebody saying to plan to learn the code, has to understand that it cost a lot of time, time you can spent in another way.
2. You have to understand that there are a lot of people starting to learn the code, but stopping early or later before they can actually use it in ham radio. When you stop, the invested time is lost. You can  spent every minute in your life only once.

I think that it is important that people realise what they do when they start. Otherwise they fail.
Training Morse Code is certainly different from a physical sport training, In general the capacity and the time to invest in order to be sufficient proficient for ham QSO-ing at 15 to 20 wpm which is the normal speed produced by hams in QSO, increases with the starting age with learning te code.

In the past LCWO published of each participant the number of exercises and the lesson they were working on.
You could easily scan the figures and find out that only a few percent  finished the course. You could read all kind of expectations in sub forums there: "I compromise myself to make my first QSO after Christmas. " Stopped a few weeks later obviously. That German guys were working in group, stimulated by each others results. That is the purpose. Doesn't work either.

In short: When you say what I say and when you say you can't perform that because your character is not strong enough for such a task, just that remark is for a lot of guys the stimulating factor to proof the opposite.

It is just like stopping smoking or loosing weight. You really have to want it strongly, you have to plan it seriously, and you may never skip your planned daily exercises.


Quote
When people train for long races it's also nice to have a cohort of friends or training partners to keep one motivated and staying the course.  I find it rare that men of 49 have such a local cadre when it comes to Morse code.  That is why many people like myself turn to forums like this.  To find people they can rely on for support, advice, encouragement and friendship.  You sir seem to have a disconcerting lack of insight into this.  Perhaps you should spend some of your energy and time posting on a psychology forum looking into your motivation for thwarting the endeavors of people like Wayne.

A forum can be used the way you propose, and certainly is, when I read the encouragements here. Morse code training is something you have to do yourself because you planned it, you want it,  you don't want to fail, I don't see much sense in trying to keep weight losers and stopping smokers on a forum. They have to motivate themself. Only then you can succeed.

Somebody of 49 certainly can learn the code, I welcomed him, and give him the advice to join LCWO or use G4FON with a warning he has to exercise every day 2 times 15 minutes for 6 month in order to get sufficient proficient, as my estimation.

PA0FOX wanted it, exercised, and made it. Exercising copy by head now, with MP3 files and ear pieces, when biking to his employer.

However a forum is also a way to exchange thoughts and opinions. I feel free to give my opinion in order to make guys planning to learn the code aware of what they are starting to accomplish, that makes the chance of success larger, and prevents disappointment and lost time.

Thanks, Stan for dealing your thoughts

73 Bob
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 04:06:03 PM by PA0BLAH » Logged
LB3KB
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Posts: 233


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« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 05:40:38 PM »

There are plenty of fat people and smokers that have become proficient at Morse code.

As a matter of fact, my body has been meticulously sculpted by good beer and a complete lack of exercise - and I smoke too.  That hasn't stopped me from getting proficient at a lot of stuff much more complicated than learning Morse code.


73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2012, 11:52:27 PM »

OK, get the point Sigurd, You did not want to lose weight or to stop smoking, and seeks helplessly on fora for support because you do know in advance that your weak character can't make it without support of a friendly crowd of strangers.

But you did want to learn Morse code and you did want to learn your other complicated programming and do did it, because you wanted it and your will is strong enough just to do that, and you did not need a forum, telling you are going to learn C++ or Java or solving in an analytical way structures of non linear partial differential equations of the fifth order.

Bob
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2012, 12:14:39 AM »

When you ask the guy here "How many fingers do you have?" He promptly answers: "I have ten digits."

Then he didn't answer the question.

Yes, right, so was said to him, and the answer of the little guy was:
"Please, show me your middle-finger."

The old man did, and the little guy said, Four fingers don't have a middle finger when that is your middle finger, and you have two fingers at the left of it, you also have two fingers at the right of it, so your thumb is a finger and you have 10 fingers.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 12:29:37 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 875




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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2012, 12:59:13 AM »


Hi Wayne,

Welcome to ham radio again.
I learned morse by myself in the way that most hams did in the 1960's by looking at a book and listening on the air.
Although I was quite proficient at code up to 20 wpm in this way, I later did training for seagoing Radio Officer duties.
The technique used was about an hour a day on an ancient paper tape morse generator for two years.
Sending training was by sending to an instructor who critiqued your sending and gave you advice.
At the end of two years, the students were sent to sea, and managed quite happily.

Some of these guys were mature age students from 35 to 45 years from remote islands telecommunications facilties.
So, if you practice receiving for an hour a day for two years, you should be up to that level as well.

This is ham radio, and you will encounter different speeds and competencies, but after all it is supposed to be fun.
If I were you, I would concentrate mostly on receiving competency.
There are many options for sending morse ranging from hand keys to P.C. keyboards, and this will not be your bottleneck.

Enjoy yourself, do a bit each day, and you will gradually improve your skill level.
Keep the gatekeeper at the entrance to your brain alert, and make sure he refuses entry to negative comments and persons.
They are poison to creativity, progress and your psyche.

Don't worry be happy.

73 - Rob
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N2EY
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Posts: 3911




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« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2012, 12:03:32 PM »

Discontinue ANYTHING that impairs your ability to concentrate, focus, and learn new stuff. Only doctor-prescribed medications are exempt from this rule. Beer and other learning-affecting substances are not exempt. Get enough sleep and enough physical exercise. Eat right.

What the 'ey do you have against beer ?  Beer is good for you.

73
LB3KB Sigurd
justlearnmorsecode.com

Read the whole thing.

For a lot of people, beer reduces the ability to learn new things. This is proven by the number of really dumb things folks do under its influence.

OTOH, there are those who subscribe to Cliff Clavin's "Buffalo Theory"

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KG4NEL
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Posts: 443




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« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2012, 12:55:06 PM »

Nah, that's because you think you know what you're doing (keeping in your lane, whether or not that girl who's looking at you is under 300lbs), but the beer gets in the way  Grin



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