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Author Topic: What to buy Kenwood TS-2000 or Yaesu FT-950  (Read 14691 times)
N4NYY
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Posts: 4758




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« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2012, 10:26:50 AM »

Well, Sherwood just posted the stats for the FT-950. And it doesn't look too bad:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

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K0YHV
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2012, 09:35:33 PM »

QST published the receiver data for the FT950 in 2008.. They show the 2khz IMD at 71db.  Wonder if the PEP upgrade done by Yaesu (the QST review was for a pre-PEP model) really made that much difference.

John AF5CC
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N4NYY
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Posts: 4758




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« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2012, 05:39:18 AM »

QST published the receiver data for the FT950 in 2008.. They show the 2khz IMD at 71db.  Wonder if the PEP upgrade done by Yaesu (the QST review was for a pre-PEP model) really made that much difference.

John AF5CC

The PEP made some changes to the AGC, but there is now way I can recall all the updates they have done. I purchased mine well after the PEP, and then I got a new one last month because of a lightning hit. Whatever the case, it is clearly not as bad as people made it out.
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K4RVN
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Posts: 772




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« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2012, 02:05:38 PM »

In a previous post, I suggested to buy a 590 Kenwood and I am retracting that suggestion. I bought one two weeks ago and had to use the RIT to make the reception on SSB sound normal. I found that the frequency was off 50 hertz and up to 100 herz at times. Might not sound like much but others had to tune off to make my signal sound OK. A new radio should not be off frequency. Bottom line is that after suggesting  on my phone call that I send it back for a swap out to the dealer. Kenwood refused to authorize the swap according to the dealer. The dealer said its' test showed only 50 herz off. They said it was within specs so would do nothing due to Kenwood.So if the received signal is say 18.150.00 you would have to tune to 18.150.05 or up to hear a normal SSB voice. They would have to use rit to hear you for a normal sound as your transmit would be off 50 hertz unless you used RIT.
It cost me over 41 bucks to send it back and another hundred for a refund. My total outlay for a week with the radio was
$141. It could have been worse as normal restock was 15% of the price paid. My little Icom 7200 was on Frequency and cost over 500 dollars less, so what's with Kenwood? I had owned two previous Kenwood transceivers both dead on frequency. I am looking at an Icom 7410 for a couple hundred more base price. Kenwood suggested I buy the optional TXCO unit to put it on frequency, so if you decide on a 590 you might consider buying it and let the dealer install it.
My experience was bad, but I wish you good luck, but do not suggest to buy a 590 based on my buy experience.

Frank
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1777




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« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2012, 05:30:50 AM »


It cost me over 41 bucks to send it back and another hundred for a refund. My total outlay for a week with the radio was
$141.

Kenwood suggested I buy the optional TXCO unit to put it on frequency,

So, you wasted $141 instead of spending $120 for the TXCO? Simple to install and tweak and does not need a dealer install.
And now you are considering a Icom 7410 that has known problems?
I guess it all makes sense - to you...  Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 05:37:24 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
HB9PJT
Member

Posts: 268


WWW

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« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2012, 07:05:30 AM »

A normal procedure is to use the VFO and not the RIT to the exact frequency where the other station sounds fine. Because all rigs do have a bit a frequency tollerance it is normal to do that. Also you have to do that when you have a very precise OCXO or TCXO because your partner station might have no accurate frequency. Remember also that older rigs without digital VFO and analogue frequency display are a bit off frequency. Maybe 1 kHz or 2 kHz. But they are still fine today to use.

BTW the IC-7200 has a frequency stability of +/- 0.5 ppm. That is +/- 9 Hz at 18 MHz. But only frequency stability is specified but not frequency accuracy. So in practice you could end with more than 9 Hz.

Your Kenwood was fine with 50 Hz. The stability is specified with 5 ppm which is 90 Hz at 18 MHz. The optional TCXO ist 0.5 ppm.

73, Peter - HB9PJT



In a previous post, I suggested to buy a 590 Kenwood and I am retracting that suggestion. I bought one two weeks ago and had to use the RIT to make the reception on SSB sound normal. I found that the frequency was off 50 hertz and up to 100 herz at times. Might not sound like much but others had to tune off to make my signal sound OK. A new radio should not be off frequency. Bottom line is that after suggesting  on my phone call that I send it back for a swap out to the dealer. Kenwood refused to authorize the swap according to the dealer. The dealer said its' test showed only 50 herz off. They said it was within specs so would do nothing due to Kenwood.So if the received signal is say 18.150.00 you would have to tune to 18.150.05 or up to hear a normal SSB voice. They would have to use rit to hear you for a normal sound as your transmit would be off 50 hertz unless you used RIT.
It cost me over 41 bucks to send it back and another hundred for a refund. My total outlay for a week with the radio was
$141. It could have been worse as normal restock was 15% of the price paid. My little Icom 7200 was on Frequency and cost over 500 dollars less, so what's with Kenwood? I had owned two previous Kenwood transceivers both dead on frequency. I am looking at an Icom 7410 for a couple hundred more base price. Kenwood suggested I buy the optional TXCO unit to put it on frequency, so if you decide on a 590 you might consider buying it and let the dealer install it.
My experience was bad, but I wish you good luck, but do not suggest to buy a 590 based on my buy experience.

Frank
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K4RVN
Member

Posts: 772




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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2012, 07:54:03 AM »

Stan you missed the point that Kenwood advised me to send it back to the dealer to swap it out when I called them.
Had they told me we will not swap it out on the phone, then I would have considered other options. After the exam by the dealer, they wanted me to buy the txco, another 120, for a total of additional $161. Also they are saying that being off frequency is the same as frequency stability which is like comparing apples an oranges, but I guess that makes sense to you. It was consistent in being off frequency, which when added to some small  frequency drift made a problem for me on a new radio. Had I know they would not swap it out ,I would have taken it to our authorized Kenwood repair shop in the area and let them put it on frequency for me probably for less than 100 bucks. At least I would have checked into that option.
 However my suggestion is that people who buy one also buy the txco when they buy the radio. My dealer would have installed it free if I bought it. I also did not say don't buy the 590, just that I am deleteing my suggestion to buy based on my experience. Who wants to buy a new radio and then get the golden screwdriver out, remove the cover to plug in a $100 plus option to put it on frequency.

Peter thank you for your post, and I am in agreement with all you said and aware of it. However, I did not choose to keep a new highly touted state of the art radio that was off frequency that you, unlike Stan, understood was not a frequency stability problem but off frequency radio.

Frank
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1777




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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2012, 09:27:48 AM »

Stan you missed the point that Kenwood advised me to send it back to the dealer to swap it out when I called them.

 Who wants to buy a new radio and then get the golden screwdriver out, remove the cover to plug in a $100 plus option to put it on frequency.

Indeed I did miss the Kenwood swap out. Apologys.

Your hearing must be acute as I can not hear a .05 difference on a SSB signal. I just tuned a half a dozen signals and according to my hearing .05 makes no difference in how the SSB sounds.

IMO Kenwood should have included the TXCO with all TS-590s's, like almost all other mid range radios.

Since you were told Kenwood would swap it out, it should have been swapped out. However even if swapped the replacement could be off also, hence the necessity for buying one with the TXCO.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 09:35:29 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
N4CR
Member

Posts: 1666




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« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2012, 11:54:41 AM »

I'm lost as to why you didn't just adjust it against WWV and be done with it. Free, takes a few minutes and you can repeat as needed 5 or 10 years down the road. If you expect perfection, you'll usually have to supply it yourself. Nobody else cares as much as you do.

Heck, I expect to have to do that with about every radio I touch. I don't see it as much of a  big deal. It's normal for components to drift.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

We are Coulomb of Borg. Resistance is futile. Voltage, on the other hand, has potential.
K4RVN
Member

Posts: 772




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« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2012, 01:34:38 PM »

N4CR,
Why did not the dealer's tech. dept do that or Kenwood? do you know something we don't? Also I was warned not to
tamper with the radio or the warranty would be voided. I would not know where to start as this is a radio with two vfos and complicated DSP. Anyway, go buy one and have at it if that's your cup of tea. It was not a drift problem simply off frequency enough to distort the ssb from the time it was turned on. It never drifted that I could tell from the display. It could have been off more than the display indicated, I don't know.
Buy you one and have at it if that's your cup of tea, I would not question your choice. Tell me how you would have done it
and maybe I will buy it back from the dealer. I just used wwv to put my 30 plus year old Ten Tec back dead on freq. using the time base cap to adjust it. This one may be a little more complicated and was brand new and in warranty.


Frank
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 5798




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« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2012, 01:45:24 PM »

I am not sure here but are you claiming the there is a 50 or so hz shift in between xmit and recv or it is just off 50hz on calibration. If it is the later zero beating rig will not void warranty. It is not considered a modification.
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K0CWO
Member

Posts: 418




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« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2012, 04:47:24 PM »

I have owned 6 brand new rigs, (Icom, Yaesu, and Kenwood) some with TCXO, some without, over the last 15 years.  With the exception of an IC-718 all of them have been on frequency.  What I mean by that is that if a group meets on 3.764 and I dialed that into the VFO, everyone sounded natural.  Using this scenario, the IC-718 was off enough for not only me to be able to detect that it was off but those I was talking to as well.  Not a big deal off course but it seems to me that frequency precision undetectable by the transmitting and receiving station with respect to frequency readout is more the norm than the exception these days.  The IC-718 was adjusted so that it sounds normal on transmit as well as receive with the exact frequency indicated on the frequency readout.  I suspect Frank's TS-590 could have been calibrated and if I was a smart dealer I would have done that for him as a matter of customer service without trying to sell him a $120 TCXO option.  Maybe I'm picky but I agree with Frank.  I would expect any $1500 rig to be "on frequency" regardless of what rig it is.

Going back to the original post; I own both the FT-950 and the TS-2000 (out of the box both right on frequency to the ear).  Both are great rigs but I prefer the FT-950 over the TS-2000 on HF although the latter does a fine job on HF as well.  It is hard to beat the TS-2000 price/versatility wise.  If I needed a new radio I would give the TS-590 serious consideration but the radios I have right now serve me well enough.

73, k0cwo       
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