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Author Topic: CB on 10m What to do?  (Read 8955 times)
M5AEO
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Posts: 254




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« on: July 26, 2012, 01:15:45 PM »

Yesterday afternoon I was tuning around 10m and there were no stations on except a very strong FM signal on 28,450Mhz.  Within a couple of seconds I realized it was a CB station.  I didn't really know what to do, so I tuned up my antenna for a few minutes, which made him furious but didn't get rid of him.  Obviously I couldn't explain to him that he was on the wrong band as I would have been comunicating with an unlicenced station, which is against the terms of my licence.  What should I do next time he's on?

Jonathan, M5AEO, London.
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KG4NEL
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Posts: 373




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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2012, 01:18:04 PM »

Spin the knob.
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 01:39:55 PM »

Yes, turn the big knob and move on. 

Giving trolls any attention at all only serves to encourage them...


73
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4325




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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 01:42:10 PM »

In the US 'deliberate interference' is an offence, even apparently, if it is to a station who is not authorised to be on that frequency. In the UK, the attitude is more of 'You cannot be causing interference to a station who is not licenced to use that frequency, or, if licenced, is a secondary user in a band in which you are the primary user'. This, incidentally, is arguably more in line with the international Radio Regulations.

The exception to this is a station in distress, who is entitled to use any mode or frequency to obtain assistance - but in that case, you would know what to do. (Obtain info on nature of distress, position and form of station - marine, aircraft land etc -, intentions of commander, number of people involved to pass on to relevant authorities)

My response has always been to call CQ over the top of CBers in 10 metres, and if need be, chase them up and down the band. Using the amplifier, of course. It has worked well many times. Leaving them alone just encourages them to keep doing it.
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N4NYY
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Posts: 4742




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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 05:20:47 PM »

Spin the knob.

Well said. Don't agitate them.
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AC5UP
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Posts: 3812




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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 07:05:15 PM »

All I know is that I have a deal with the FCC... If I don't screw up too badly or too often they let me keep my license.

If someone operates where they shouldn't that's on them, not me, and two wrongs do not make a right.
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K0ZN
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Posts: 1525




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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2012, 09:34:55 PM »

You CANNOT "interfere" with an unlicensed station that is operating ILLEGALLY in an Amateur Band. In the legal world, the unlicensed station essentially does not exist!
That station has NO legal right to operation on that frequency, so it has absolutely NO "rights" of protection. The bootleg station has Zero protection under the law for its operation UNLESS it is transmitting REAL, true, "life and death" communications. i.e. "SOS" type communications.  The only other exception would possibly be a legitimate military operation in a ham band under *some* conditions or situations.

If the CB or bootleg station was operating on an Aviation channel would the pilot of the aircraft on that frequency be "interfering" with him??  Obviously, NO.  It is no different for a LICENSED Amateur Station, who has all the rights and privileges granted in the FCC license.  If the power line in your neighborhood is generating radio noise,
are YOU "interfering" with the power company's UNLICENSED generation of a radio signal??

Ultimately, you have TWO choices: (1.) "Spin the dial".  (2.) Chose to operate in accordance with the terms of your license on ANY frequency you are legal on.

In the real world, with all the REAL problems and seriously improper operation going on among hams, the LAST thing the FCC or a government agency would
spend their time on is chasing some ham who happened to be operating on top of some out of band CB'er or bootlegger.  The Feds have MUCH bigger fish to fry.

If I choose to test my equipment or antenna, or seek a contact by calling CQ, in accordance with the terms and conditions of my license, and on ANY frequency I am authorized to operate on, I am free to do so as long as I do not cause intentional and malicious interference to other LICENSED stations or services. If there is an illegal, unlicensed station on that frequency, that is HIS problem!

73,  K0ZN

 

« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 09:40:53 PM by K0ZN » Logged
G3RZP
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Posts: 4325




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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2012, 11:36:32 PM »

>The only other exception would possibly be a legitimate military operation in a ham band under *some* conditions or situations<

I'm interested here. What situations?
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K2DC
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Posts: 1340


WWW

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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 02:27:37 AM »

I have heard the US Coast GUard on 20M coordinating rescue operations with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, but it doesn't happen very often.

73,

Don, K2DC
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AC5UP
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Posts: 3812




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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 03:11:44 AM »

...I am free to do so as long as I do not cause intentional and malicious interference to other LICENSED stations or services. If there is an illegal, unlicensed station on that frequency, that is HIS problem!

If you have a cite in support of your assertion that willful interference to an "unlicensed" or "illegal" station is permitted per FCC Part 97 I'd like to see it. And, while you're at it, please describe how you acquired the infallible ability to determine which stations are legal. I realize that being a self-appointed Radio Cop is a big ego stroke, but you should realize there is an ethical responsibility that goes along with that position lest you end up becoming just another a--hole on 10 Meters.

In the legal world, the unlicensed station essentially does not exist!

Dare I say that if you can hear a signal, it does exist. Therefore... In the words of FCC Part 97.101d...

Quote
ยง97.101 General standards. -
(a) In all respects not specifically covered by FCC Rules each amateur station must be operated in accordance with good engineering and good amateur practice.
(b) Each station licensee and each control operator must cooperate in selecting transmitting channels and in making the most effective use of the amateur service frequencies. No frequency will be assigned for the exclusive use of any station.
(c) At all times and on all frequencies, each control operator must give priority to stations providing emergency communications, except to stations transmitting communications for training drills and tests in RACES.
(d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.

What part of the phrase " any radio communication or signal " is confusing to you?
In the future you should consider referring to Part 97 for clarification of your license terms before willfully advertising your ignorance.
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G3RZP
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Posts: 4325




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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 06:50:49 AM »

'2DC,

OK. Splitting hairs, that is part of distress communications and so is totally legal. For some reason, I never think of the USCG as military, but of course, they are. One time, I worked with a guy who figured he didn't want to be shot at in Vietnam, so he 'draft dodged' as he put it, by doing something like 20 years in the Coast Guard!
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12641




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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 07:29:23 AM »

He was lucky that he didn't get assigned to one of the Coast Guard squadrons that were sent to Viet Nam to patrol the rivers. Try a Google search on "coast guard and viet nam".

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AD4U
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Posts: 2150




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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 11:30:47 AM »

The same goes for people who "play" on repeaters.  I own 3 repeaters and I maintain 2 more.  Ocassionally somebody (HAM or maybe not) gets on just to agitate.  The very last thing anyone should do is challenge or belittle them.  JUST IGNORE THEM.  What they are doing is no fun if nobody responds.  Very soon they will get tired and go some where else.

Dick  AD4U
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G3RZP
Member

Posts: 4325




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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 03:42:29 AM »

Repeaters are a different matter to using 10m for CB, and need a different treatment. Fortunately, we don't have a FCC Part 97. 101. The ONLY way to chase intruders out of 10m (or any other band where the amateur service is the primary user) is to make life difficult for them so that they go elsewhere. That includes Kenyan interbank comms on 40 metres.
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W8JI
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Posts: 9304


WWW

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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 06:04:06 PM »

'2DC,

OK. Splitting hairs, that is part of distress communications and so is totally legal. For some reason, I never think of the USCG as military, but of course, they are. One time, I worked with a guy who figured he didn't want to be shot at in Vietnam, so he 'draft dodged' as he put it, by doing something like 20 years in the Coast Guard!

People have a habit of inventing rules and repeating the rules they invent over and over until someone believes them. While we do have this rule:

Quote
(d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.

Interference is defined in definitions. Interference is:

Quote
(23) Harmful interference. Interference which endangers the functioning of a radionavigation service or of other safety services or seriously degrades, obstructs or repeatedly interrupts a radiocommunication service operating in accordance with the Radio Regulations.

Since the CB operator is not operating as a licensed radio communication service, and certainly operating in accordance with regulations, he has ZERO protection from interference. Any and all illegal radio operations have no protection at all from a licensed operation. It has been this way since time began.

The FCC has ruled on this before, and ruled illegal operations have no protection. The FCC has even gone further than that, ruling  uncoordinated repeaters have no protection against a coordinated repeater.

If a CBer is on some frequency and I feel like calling CQ or testing to make adjustments, I am under no obligation at all to avoid the illegal operation. I cannot cause harmful interference, because he is not an authorized user and is not following regulations.

The sole exception is if it is a station from another service operating in amateur bands to handle legitimate emergency communications. Some stations are authorized to go anywhere they need to handle emergencies.

73 Tom
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