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Author Topic: Antenna Restrictions  (Read 6990 times)
WB4CMB
Member

Posts: 39




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« on: August 05, 2012, 07:29:20 PM »

These are a series of Emails concerning the instalaltion of an antenna on my two acre property in Park County, CO in the Indian Mountain area.

 Latest On Antenna Installations
This is a copy of the latest comm. between a person in the area where my cabin is located and my answer. If you assume I am angry, you are correct.

I am surprised of the objections to a perfectly legal and allowed project. I have inquired of the IMPOA board and the Building AND Planning
Committees of Park county and I am authorized to install an antenna. I hold the highest ham license available and have 37 years working in and teaching electronics with a strong background in RF (Radio Frequency).
I am restricted to 35 ft height by the Park County rules and only must have the base inspected (nothing else) if I put in a tower.
At the present time, I do not plan to put in a tower altho it is perfectly legal and allowed. Most likely I will have some type of wire antenna or a vertical antenna which essentially is just an aluminum tube. At the present time, I do not even own operable ham equipment although that will change in the near future.
There are Federal regulations (FCC PRBs) that state that Government agencies must "Reasonably Accomodate" in the installation of an antenna for Ham operation.
I believe it is completely within private property rights for me to be able to enjoy my hobby so long as I do not endanger anyone. If I were installing a 100 ft tower or or had a light on top of an antenna or installing something that would be a danger to others, I could understand this.
I would be willing to listen to any Indian Mountain resident as to how I could minimize the visual impact, but I would legally fight to the greatest of possibilities and resources the total elimination of my rights to enjoy my property and hobby which is not only allowed and sanctioned but encouraged by the Government.
I would appreciate it if you would research Ham Radio's many contributions to the advancement of the electronics fields AND to emergency communications. BTW, I am a Ham (Amateur) radio operator and NOT a CB (Citizens Band) operator.
Did I do something in the past to anger you?
Thanks Ray


> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 10:46:52 -0500
> From: stoval@peoplepc.com
> To: RaymondParkII@msn.com
> Subject: antennas
>
> Ray
>
> I just wanted to let you know that the word is out, that you want to put up an antenna on your
> property for ham radio operations. Currently there are a dozen people who have voiced their
> adamant objections to your proposed antenna. Bad news travels fast in a small tight knit
> community like Indian Mtn. The majority of us are up here to get away from the city lights,
> cell towers, antennas, and the like, all those things detract from the natural beauty that we
> all cherish.............
>
> Out of consideration and respect for your neighbors in Indian Mtn. we ask that you abandon this
> idea of putting up an antenna.
>
> Thank you
> Susan Stoval
>
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WB4CMB
Member

Posts: 39




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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 07:33:00 PM »

I rx'd an Email fm the president of the HOA and he is requesting compromise. So, I prob won't put up a tower, prob will put up either a fan dipole or a vertical (not sure if I wish to do the necessary task of laying radials altho I do have 2 acres). By not disputing my statement about the covenants not sayng a word about antennas, I believe he is admitting that they can't block me. Those pine/cedar/aspen trees do sway a lot tho. The County rules would not apply with either a vertical of a dipole in trees so I have a bit of leeway there. Thanks Ray
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KQ6Q
Member

Posts: 965




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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 12:27:43 PM »

It sounds like wires in the trees will be the least noticeable - dipoles, or perhaps an elevated ground plane or two, with elevated radials between the trees, if they can be run without being visible.
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 5918




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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 03:31:03 PM »

Your letter was rather poor and probably put them off. You need to include the names/numbers of legal documents as support as well as copies of them. And leave out the extraneous information such as your grade of license, the fact you don't have a station right now and so on.
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N0NZG
Member

Posts: 107




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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 08:54:23 PM »

The letter you got from your HOA sounds like they know they don’t have a leg to stand on and they are pleading with you and appealing to what ever they can to convince you that an antenna is not what you want. READ your HOA bylaws and covenants, IF there is not a restriction on antennas then TELL THEM TO POUND SAND and put up whatever antenna you deem appropriate.  Stand your ground if not for your own sake, but then for the next Ham that wants an antenna in the same area. If you comply with the written rules of the HOA you agreed to when you purchased the property and comply with the law then you will be OK. I would suggest taking a hard line with the HOA in your communications, because if you show that you are willing to give up any of your rights that are allowed under the rules and laws of your area then if it goes to court then you automatically have a credibility issue with a judge. You are not going to win their hearts and minds. Do what you are entitled to do under the rules and laws and don’t look back. CYA!!


EDIT

The wishes of the folks in your HOA only matter in this case as far as they are enforceable. IF the rules allow you to have an antenna and you put one up then there may be bad feelings.  However hurt feelings carry no wait with the law and are not enforceable in a way that will cause you to have to take down your antenna. 

When you have communications with the HOA

1.   Stick to the facts only 

2.   Site any laws etc you reference

3.   Keep emotion out of the realm of discussion.

4.   Document everything even to the point of restating what they told you.

5.   Know what your rights and responsibilities are and stick to them

6.   You may have to make a choice between being a ham and having a good time with    the HOA crowd

7.   You will get more results with honey.

8.   I would present the ultimate strong case in writing then when talking to them off the record that’s when you discuss things like lower visual impact etc..

9.   NEVER NEVER  document that you are in anyway willing to give up any of your rights. Just because you don’t want a 6 ele tri-bander now doesn’t mean you won’t when the solar cycle goes to sleep.

Remember the HOA has legal council and they will be reviewing any communication you put forth to try and use your own statements against you.


GOOD LUCK

Jeremy
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 09:06:51 PM by N0NZG » Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 169




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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 07:03:02 AM »

IF there is not a restriction on antennas then TELL THEM TO POUND SAND and put up whatever antenna you deem appropriate.
I absolutely disagree with this statement. This is the sort of attitude that makes people dislike or hate Hams. You tell your neighbors to Go to H** and you can be sure that (1) you become the social outcast in the neighborhood, (2) your neighbors will be absolutely certain to tell all their friends to make sure the CC&Rs in their neighborhoods ban any antennas, (3) your neighbors will be sure that even the slightest violation of the CC&Rs by you will result in swift and punitive action. For example, you decide to plant a tree in your yard and the CC&Rs say any exterior modification to your property requires approval. You plant the tree and you get fined or you ask for approval and they find 1,000s of reasons to deny you request.

Hams like to beat their chest and proclaim that they belong to a service organization. "We are here to provide emergency communications and severe weather warning as a service to the community. Oh and by the way, if you don't like my antenna you can pound sand!" How's that for service to the community?
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 5918




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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »

You could go stealth with a flagpole having an auto tuner at the base. That will work as well as the vertical you want. Will they allow a flagpole of 24' or so?
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N4UM
Member

Posts: 450




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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 02:27:55 PM »

I agree with WX7G.  There's no sense in getting all your neighbors angry with you.  You and your family will be miserable trying to live there if you do that even if you do have every legal right to put up an antenna.  Since you're apparently permitted under the HOA rules to have an antenna go ahead and put up something unobtrusive such as a flagpole with a decent radial system under it for use on 40 thru 10.  Don't even let on that it is an antenna.  Get a remote autotuner at the base of the thing and put a flag on it while following  the etiquette of the U.S. flag code.  Later when things cool down put up a simple 80 meter dipole or add a top loading wire to your flagpole for use at night on 80 meters. 
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N0NZG
Member

Posts: 107




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 11:32:45 PM »

IF there is not a restriction on antennas then TELL THEM TO POUND SAND and put up whatever antenna you deem appropriate.
I absolutely disagree with this statement. This is the sort of attitude that makes people dislike or hate Hams. You tell your neighbors to Go to H** and you can be sure that (1) you become the social outcast in the neighborhood, (2) your neighbors will be absolutely certain to tell all their friends to make sure the CC&Rs in their neighborhoods ban any antennas, (3) your neighbors will be sure that even the slightest violation of the CC&Rs by you will result in swift and punitive action. For example, you decide to plant a tree in your yard and the CC&Rs say any exterior modification to your property requires approval. You plant the tree and you get fined or you ask for approval and they find 1,000s of reasons to deny you request.

Hams like to beat their chest and proclaim that they belong to a service organization. "We are here to provide emergency communications and severe weather warning as a service to the community. Oh and by the way, if you don't like my antenna you can pound sand!" How's that for service to the community?


I am glad that you also quoted the fact that I said put up whatever you deem appropriate. That means if a stealth antenna is the best way to deal with the situation then that's the way to go.  There is a fine line between having an antenna and getting your self ostracized by the HOA.  From my point of view the fact that they would want the original poster to abandon his plan for any antenna is not acceptable.  In my own case I settled for a Hustler 5BTV that is tucked behind and oak tree as a compromise with my HOA. My point is these folks on the HOA want to force their will on anyone they can. If he complies with the rules he agreed to then there is no reason not to have any antenna that is in compliance with those rules. In every situation one has to use the best judgment when dealing with an HOA.  The  Original poster has already communicated to the HOA that he is ready for a legal fight to preserve his ability to have an antenna, so it doesn't seam that there is to much concern for neighborly relations at this point. I would rather lead with a very strong position and then compromise later to show yourself to be reasonable in the end.  In any case common sense should always prevail.   
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G3RZP
Member

Posts: 4366




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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 08:44:48 AM »

Do you have any forest fires around? You could gently point out that having ham radio provides communications that could save THEIR lives.
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N0NZG
Member

Posts: 107




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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 12:04:41 PM »

Do you have any forest fires around? You could gently point out that having ham radio provides communications that could save THEIR lives.


GREAT IDEA !!
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N4UE
Member

Posts: 291




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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2012, 09:26:40 AM »

Ray, I feel your pain, been there, done that, lost the T-shirt....
Here's MY story...
I have always had towers on my property, even an apartment in Mass. The ex-xyl and I moved to Florida from Ky where I had towers on 2 different homes.
We bought a nice parcel in a NON HOA area. The Realtor went out of his way to show me the other ham tower in the neighborhood, in addition to several TV towers.
I went to the County Building Dept submitted my Rohn plans and had written permission. I put up 2 towers which were VERY far from the one neighbor's property line.
I had cashed in my 401K, etc to build my dream garage/shack (2 story) which was beautiful and matched our new high $ home.
The neighbors got together and sued us because they 'didn't like the looks'. They knew all too well that they would lose the lawsuit (they did), but it cost us a small fortune to hire a lawyer, etc. These are a bunch of old, rich bastard who bitch about anything possible. My ex even asked me to take the towers down to 'keep peace', which I refused, so she left. Why? Because it got to the point we were getting death threats, been driven off the road, etc. Being a combat vet, I was ready to defend us, which the sheriff was OK with! She was afraid to go outside and work in her flower garden.
Counter-sue you ask? Lawyer advised against it since it could go on for years. The ARRL's VE Lawyers gave me great advise but in the end the advise was worth every penny it cost. Nothing.

The bottom line is this:

ANYBODY can sue ANYONE for ANYTHING. You might win, but you will lose in the long run. I know.
DO not try to place all your plans with any FCC regulation. It won't matter.

I now line in a nice home on 2 acres with 3 towers and NO neighbors!!!

ron
N4UE
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