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Author Topic: When quoting someone else  (Read 10544 times)
K1CJS
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Posts: 6045




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« on: September 18, 2012, 04:07:11 AM »

Lately I've seen some users here who quote another user's writings, but put their comments in before the quoted piece.  It's sometimes disconcerting to find that, at the end of a long diatribe, the writer has been speaking of something that should have been indicated at the beginning of his piece.

Please, just as a courtesy to the people here, either put the quoted piece at the top of your post or begin your writings with something like "Concerning the quote below..."  It would be ever so helpful!  Thanks and 73!
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N4TTS
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 12:53:39 PM »

OH GAWD NO!!!

Please say that's not true! How can this world continue to exist if everyone places quoted text wherever they want to?
It's the end of the world as we know it and it's ALL MY FAULT...

Before long people will be wearing whatever clothes they want and thinking independent thoughts. Total anarchy is imminent!

Don N4TTS


Lately I've seen some users here who quote another user's writings, but put their comments in before the quoted piece.  It's sometimes disconcerting to find that <clip>
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AC5UP
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Posts: 3897




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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 02:33:38 PM »





I detect a palpable tone of smartassery in that reply.







As is my habit, I feel the need to respond in kind:    Keep Up The Good Work      Grin






BTW:  YESTERDAY SOMEONE (WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS) POSTED A QUESTION IN ALL CAPS AND EVEN WORSE USED ALMOST NO PARAGRAPHS OR PUNCTUATION IN A SERIES OF RUN ON SENTENCES. WERE THIS A DIFFERENT TIME OR PLACE AN OFFENSE OF SUCH MAGNITUDE COULD JUSTIFY DEATH BY STONING BUT THIS ISN'T THE TIME OR PLACE FOR THAT.

At least not yet.........
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K1CJS
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Posts: 6045




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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 07:50:27 AM »

Geez, a simple statement and a request, something that I thought may be helpful to others.  I didn't expect a reply like the one posted.  Forget I said anything.

I can see why all too many hams who used to come here don't anymore.

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K5TR
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Posts: 387


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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 09:03:00 AM »

Reading this thread makes me sad. 

I agree with the original post - I to dislike top posting - in every email I get that does it - but sadly due to a number
of email clients and they way the do things I think fighting against it has become a lost cause.  I will admit that I even top post
sometimes when replying to messages on my iphone since it is so hard to do otherwise.  The cursor is put at the top
of the reply and it has the full text of the message below it - trying to delete some of the message is just painful on the phone.
So, I have mostly given up suggesting that using short quotes and bottom posting is really a better way to communicate.

If you have no clue what I mean by the words 'top posting' or 'bottom posting' see this web page:

http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html

And now I am going to head off-topic a bit - and maybe I should or will spit this post off to a new thread but....

This thread also makes me sad because of the somewhat hostile tone (that is how it comes off to me) of the response to
the original poster.  If you do not agree with the thought that top posting is bad form then post your case as to why bottom posting is better. 
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George
K5TR
AC5UP
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Posts: 3897




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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 09:43:21 AM »

... when you consider that some of the users here are relatively new to computers, chat boards, SIG forums and the Internet in general I think it less productive to criticize the netiquette of 'noobs than to give them the slack needed to learn the ropes.

Yesterday a poster confused the word 'conversion' with 'convergence' and went on at length about single and dual convergence receivers. No one corrected them and IMHO to do so would carry a significant risk of coming off as petty. K5TR makes a valid point that some posting styles might be less preferable on a smart phone -but- does that put the onus on the poster to consider all the possible ways their words might be butchered by the reader's hardware?

Is that fair?

If someone chooses to surf this forum on a phone, who has the burden of figuring out how to make it display legibly?

As for sensitive feelings, all I know is this is a board where a Snorg T-Shirt advert can be accused of being "porn" by a one post wonder.

Go Figure.
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N4TTS
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 12:01:38 PM »

Reading this thread makes me sad.  

I agree with the original post - I to dislike top posting <clip>

I am truly sad I made you sad...

Quote
If you have no clue what I mean by the words 'top posting' or 'bottom posting' see this web page:<clip_again>

I have a complete understanding of what top and bottom posting is. I was on Usenet long before HTML web forums were available.
I've weathered trolls, newbies, cyber-psychos and about every other web denizen in front of a keyboard.

There have been many friends and incredibly intelligent people pass by my display as well and I have enjoyed my time engaging in conversation with them all (even the denizens).

What makes me sad on forum boards and on the radio are the hoards of netiquette and kilocycle cops who can't be satisfied with operating their own equipment the way they want. These people seem to have an overwhelming compulsion to pick apart any perceived deviation from the written-in-stone-by-who-the-hell-knows "rules" for whatever communication vehicle they're occupying at that moment.

I'm not advocating chaos and mayhem but every time I see another complaint about trivial form when the content is perfectly understandable, I'm reminded yet again how tedious it's become to attempt to enjoy oneself in a public forum due to all the individuals leaping at the first opportunity to tell everyone else how they should act.

Quote
This thread also makes me sad because of the somewhat hostile tone (that is how it comes off to me) of the response to
the original poster.<last_clip>

Hostile? Jeeezus, if you believe I was hostile with my snarky little humorous sarcastic post, I now know better than to actually be mean to anyone.

My only point and intention in my reply to the OP was to express MY dismay at yet another complaint about the position of words, manner of speech or other perceived infraction when in reality the content should be the object of attention.

I just re-upped my subscription. Maybe I should hang out where people have a little thicker skin.

Don N4TTS
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 01:01:04 PM by N4TTS » Logged
K5TR
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Posts: 387


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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 02:24:10 PM »

Hostile? Jeeezus, if you believe I was hostile with my snarky.......

Yes, snarky is a much better description than my calling it hostile.  It is easy to read more into something esp. if
you have just been reading and/or dealing with other posters that are just fighting with one another for no
reason. Need to better follow one of my rules of stepping back or thinking about a post a bit more before posting.

The other point that I was trying to convey in my post is that I have pretty much given up with the top posting
bottom posting issue - it is what it is - not worth worrying about.  But I also feel that site talk is the correct place
to voice an opinion about anything that one thinks would improve things. 

The poster did not call any one person out directly or call them names - just that the poster felt that posts were
harder to follow due to top posting. It is a valid thing to post here in site talk. And it might be useful advice
or it might not. 

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George
K5TR
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6045




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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 04:12:35 PM »

....My only point and intention in my reply to the OP was to express MY dismay at yet another complaint about the position of words, manner of speech or other perceived infraction when in reality the content should be the object of attention.

Don, I continually advocate the same thing, that people should grow thicker skin.  I'm sorry that my statement and suggestion was taken as a complaint, since it wasn't meant as such.  If that wasn't made plain with my second post, well....
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N2MG
Administrator

Posts: 0



« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 01:30:02 PM »

Quote
the poster felt that posts were harder to follow due to top posting.

I read it to be more about having a relatively long top post, followed by the "instigating" quote.

Mike N2MG
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W8JI
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Posts: 9296


WWW

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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 06:43:30 AM »

Internet is a wonderful place.

People do and say things in a large viewing group a mature reasonable would never dream of doing or saying in person, or in a group.

That behavior is why people who can contribute never get on these forums. I can think of three top notch engineers, probably the best in the world, who were driven off forums. Even articles are published that are "snarky" or of poor tone, that no properly edited print magazine would touch.

All of this results in a behavioral and technical decline of our overall fraternity.
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N4TTS
Member

Posts: 158




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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2012, 09:44:14 AM »

<clip>People do and say things in a large viewing group a mature reasonable would never dream of doing or saying in person, or in a group.

That may be true but I'm not one of those people if the statement was addressed to me.
I'm the same person on the internet, on the radio or in person. My friends would attest to that.

Before you try to leverage that statement into a negative assessment of my personality, I can tell you I'm perfectly comfortable with who I am and how I present myself.

Quote
That behavior is why people who can contribute never get on these forums. I can think of three top notch engineers, probably the best in the world, who were driven off forums.<clip>

Really? You know the three best engineers in the world? That's quite a claim. Are they that sensitive and timid to the point of refusing to share their vast knowledge with the forum community because someone may say something untoward?


Quote
All of this results in a behavioral and technical decline of our overall fraternity.

A little sarcasm in an internet post has little or nothing to do with the behavioral and technical attributes of the participants in the hobby of amateur radio.
A major flaw exists in your hastily drawn conclusion.

Don N4TTS
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 09:54:35 AM by N4TTS » Logged
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