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Author Topic: Too much info on PSK31??  (Read 33940 times)
W5DQ
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« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2012, 08:08:32 AM »

Good example Bob. This was EXACTLY the point I was making back in the thread. Short sweet and follow the CQ'ers pattern. 599 TU or ragchew but limit those macros!

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
NQ3X
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Posts: 64




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« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »

AAAAAnd it happens again.

Working a W2 1x2 on 10m PSK63 who answered my CQ DX.  I'm running stations (as best I can).  I specifically state in my opening response "Pse no long macros".  What happens?  He clearly just hits an F-key and transmits half a James novel.  Then when I called him on it - "Next time listen to what the DX tells you" I get "this is a hobby, get a life".

This from an OT who was probably the original holder of the call.  

When I wrote, "Would you say the same if this was CW DXing?" he disappeared. I hope it was because he thought to himself, "Hey, you know, Bob's got a point", but I suspect it was a different reaction.  I mean, really - do you come back to a DX station who's doing "W2XX 5nn" with your normal ragchew response?  Only if you're a ... polite words fail me.

I'm ready to give this sh!t up and go play golf.  People need to learn how to DX in PSK.  

WP2XX
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 09:43:04 AM by NQ3X » Logged
STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 873




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« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2012, 04:01:20 PM »

I used to be like you.

I would fight everyone on the freeway, complete with digital mode expression, but then one day I had an epiphany.
There were simply too many people who did not appreciate my fine motoring skills, and never would.
So now, I just enjoy my commute, let the goofballs fly by me and find another target - arriving at their destination upset, or worse.

If you find PSK31 too frustrating, it would probably be best to give it up, and take up golf as you indicated.
You will find similar frustrations in every other digital mode, including CW (early callsign inserters anyone?).
People are simply too variable and in some cases incorrigible.

You have now come to a crossroads - accept you are going to get frustrated by hams at times, or leave the hobby.
The choice is yours - whining and complaining about something you cannot change is not a third option.

Happy golfing,

73 - Rob
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KC4MOP
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Posts: 741




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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2012, 07:22:51 AM »

Reading these comments has changed my mind about setting my station up for this mode. Downloaded the software and was going to configure to work with my Flex radio or the Signalink on the TS440. I'm not interested in macro operators.
Fred
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WN2C
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Posts: 451




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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2012, 09:22:00 AM »

Macros need to be short and to the point.  Rig, power, antenna, qth, name and signal report. When I send mine I let it be known the brag file is coming.  I intersperse it with maybe some other comments in response to their questions.  I think most people have problems with typing that is why macros are used with every send.  That and the macros are in the program, so they get used, often too much.

To MOP: Try it or don't, but don't let all these posts make up your mind for you. That's the easy way out. You got the program, give it a try.  You never know you might just like it.

73 DE wn2c  Rick
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STAYVERTICAL
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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2012, 01:33:06 PM »

Reading these comments has changed my mind about setting my station up for this mode. Downloaded the software and was going to configure to work with my Flex radio or the Signalink on the TS440. I'm not interested in macro operators.
Fred

Fred,

I have been using PSK31 for many years, together with CW, and some SSB.
It is really no different to using CW or SSB in my estimation.
The problem with these threads is that they focus on extremes, and bypass the middle.

The same situation is found in television programs where the players are usually caricature's of real people.
They usually emphasize one facet of personality and attenuate the rest (black hat - white hat syndrome).

Have a listen on the PSK31 segments - you will hear friends chatting for hours and DX stations having microsecond contacts.
Like in real life, there are many facets to the personality of real people, and the same is true of PSK31.
Remember - everything you read on this thread is an opinion - not fact.
If you concentrate on 14.070 DX then you will have many 599 TU ... macro ... macro type contacts.

But I have also had hundreds of ragchews with DX stations going on for hours.
In my opinion, the main factor which decides whether you will have a ragchew or "touch and go" is cultural context.
For english speaking countries, I have found many times a ragchew will come naturally, conditions permitting.
I have also seen the same effect in eastern european stations who will change to a cyrillic ragchew when a local calls them.

Give these threads about the same relationship to reality that "Jersey shore" gives to life and you will be on safe ground.

73 - Rob
 
 
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KC4MOP
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2012, 07:16:53 PM »

Very good points 2NC and STAYVERTICAL,
The forums seem to amplify both ends of the spectrum and the good part skipped over.
I'll give it a whirl.

Fred
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KD0UN
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Posts: 56




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« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2012, 06:23:49 AM »

There are lots of different types of women.  A real man can find something to appreciate about any of them.  Some I like better than others.  Much like a qso. 
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NQ3X
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Posts: 64




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« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2012, 03:21:01 AM »

While I understand what many of you are saying, I think my perspective is different, and I think you've missed that.

What I'm saying is pretty simple: When I've got a bunch of stations calling me, and I'm trying to work those stations quickly, with "TU 599" exchanges, you're simply being a jerk if you dump your brag file on me.  You wouldn't call a DX station in a pileup and start blithering about your rig, antenna, logging software, etc on phone or CW.  Hell, you wouldn't do it on RTTY!  But PSK31, for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable.  And I'm the jerk if I complain about it?  I don't think so.  All I can do is spin the dial, because Macro-Man just completely spoiled my flow and took over my freq.  The jerk who wasn't listening to how the DX is operating just spoiled it for everyone.  That's not what I was taught was good operating practice.  My ham radio mentor taught me that the acceptable manner of operation is when you give the guy calling CQ the kind of QSO he wants.  Add to that the concept of listening to a DX station and getting a feel for his preferred method of operation and conforming to that, like the DX Code of Conduct would have us operate. 

I get that this is has degenerated into the same old "wham-bam-thank-you-mister vs ragchew QSO" argument.  And I regret venting due to that degeneration.  I thank everyone for their commentary and their patience with letting me vent.

Cheers,

 Bob WP2XX
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STAYVERTICAL
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« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2012, 11:20:15 PM »

Bob,

Everyone needs to vent, and I am glad it was cathartic.

But, and this is difficult to put into words in many ways:
For your own sanity, just accept that there will always be jerks around - both in ham radio and other facets of life.

I have been at the receiving end of the same situation as you have found.
We have all been patiently waiting for our turn to work a DX station, and then comes the macro dumper from hell.
Ten minutes later, when his macro finally finishes, the conditions have changed and you can't work the DX station any more.

The reason I am pushing keeping your cool is that it is an effective way to win.
Japans famed swordsman Miyamoto Musashi went into the legend status by winning duel after duel.
One of his most used tactics was to get the other person angry by coming late to a duel or otherwise getting his opponent to lose his temper.
Old time japanese samurai also went into battle considering themselves already dead men, so they were not afraid of death in the field.
In this way they were able to concentrate on fighting and paradoxically this gave them a better chance of survival.

A poem by Rudyard Kipling says it all:

***
If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling

***


73 - Rob
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NQ3X
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« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2012, 03:48:48 AM »

I dig you, Rob.  And I really don't let jerks get to me, I promise you.  (Right now the thing that's getting to me is my SGC-239 deciding to constantly search for a match on 10m if I run more than 15w on SSB, but that's another frustration entirely.  Wink )

Cheers,

Bob WP2XX
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P29ZAD
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Posts: 16


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« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2012, 07:13:18 PM »

I love PSK and use the macros all the time.  My favorite mode is PSK125 and there is no way I can type that fast.

I have maros set up for lazy days and other macros set up for fast QSOs.  Most stations seem to reply accordingly, but there are the newbies that presses the “brag” macro when I’m trying to work tons of stations per minute.  I can do one of two things.  Get upset, or go get a cup of coffee. Grin 

I have learned the most about DXing from listening and watching others Stations with more experience.  So the only way I can really impact “the world” of Ham radio is to set a good example and hope others learn from me.
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NN4RH
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Posts: 326




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« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2012, 05:44:54 AM »

Why bother with the macros. Just put your life story from birth and a list of everything you own on your QRZ.com bio page, and set up one macro in PSK that says "Everything on QRZ".

Then you can skip over all that stuff and have a normal conversation if you want. And are capable of it.
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KO3D
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Posts: 49




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« Reply #58 on: March 01, 2013, 06:14:46 AM »

"Goodbye my dear friend best of luck to you and greetings to your family good DX and health for the upcoming year 73 Thank you for 20m BPSK31 QSO #8753 3/1/13 @ 1713 UTC. Farewell! CUAGN SK"
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 538




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« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2013, 01:59:47 PM »

What I'm saying is pretty simple: When I've got a bunch of stations calling me, and I'm trying to work those stations quickly, with "TU 599" exchanges, you're simply being a jerk if you dump your brag file on me.  You wouldn't call a DX station in a pileup and start blithering about your rig, antenna, logging software, etc on phone or CW.  Hell, you wouldn't do it on RTTY!  But PSK31, for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable. 

Just don't bother logging these people. If enough DX stations do this, they'll get the message when they get their cards back marked "Not in Log".
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