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Author Topic: JT65 and the CW add-on  (Read 7341 times)
VK2FAK
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« on: September 18, 2012, 07:55:22 PM »

Hi all....

I wonder if it is ok to use the CW option when making JT65 contacts, it would be nice to see if its possible to have a CW contact also....most people use more power with JT65 than with WSPR.

I know they rather you don't use the CW option while running, wspr for bandwidth reasons but JT65 is wider (from memory).

John
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VE3FMC
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 03:14:39 PM »

Hi all....

I wonder if it is ok to use the CW option when making JT65 contacts, it would be nice to see if its possible to have a CW contact also....most people use more power with JT65 than with WSPR.

I know they rather you don't use the CW option while running, wspr for bandwidth reasons but JT65 is wider (from memory).

John

I am not sure what CW option you are talking about. Are you talking about switching to the CW mode on your rig then making a contact with that mode on the JT65 frequency? If so I feel that is not very good operating protocol.

 The only reference to CW in JT65-HF is the ability to ID with CW at the end of a QSO.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 03:16:17 PM by VE3FMC » Logged
VK2FAK
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 05:18:02 PM »

Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John
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KE5JPP
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 06:03:58 PM »

Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John

Why?

Gene
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VE3FMC
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 07:16:41 PM »

Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John

I rarely hear the CW ID on JT65. Why bother when your call shows up on every transmission.
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VK2FAK
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Posts: 86




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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 10:48:32 PM »

Hi all...

Why ?

Well as JT65 is designed for digital work and will decode below the noise level, where CW requires a bit better signal. I thought it would be an easy check on a CW possible contact to the country being worked on JT65......CW ID transmits on the 73 message..if selected that way....so sent only at the end of the contact...

As I don't think anyone has come up with a way to compare JT65 or WSPR to a CW contact as there is a few variables in the way...like Propagation.........Its the simple process of send it and see..
I can hear 1 or 2 of the NCDXF/IARU beacons down to 10w, and as most JT65 ops tend to use 10w -20w or more, I have seen 50w recently....I thought why not use whats already available and add the additional benefit to the JT65 transmission.....it has no effect on someone simply enjoying JT65, but could give a heads up to someone monitoring, that they have a CW path to that country......

It only requires putting a tick in a box.....there really can't be an issue with that, can there ?....if someone finds a benefit, great, if not, whats the harm..

John

« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:58:25 PM by VK2FAK » Logged
W8JI
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 04:40:33 AM »

Has any long time CW operator compared jt65 or other modes and CW in a S/N test?

I know I can copy CW at -10dB S/N in a 500Hz BW enough to get calls and reports. It varies with the type of noise, but with normal background it is about -10 dB. 

Isn't JT65's S/N specified in 2.5 kHz noise bandwidth? I think I saw that somewhere.
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KD4EBL
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 11:11:44 AM »

Actually it does not. If you used all the "canned" responses it does, but there is flexibility in the final response. For example "KA1ABC KD4EBL 73", but I could send "LOTW eQSL 73". By adding the CW ID, I then send my call sign as well.
At least this is my understanding of the CW ID.


Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John

I rarely hear the CW ID on JT65. Why bother when your call shows up on every transmission.

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W5DQ
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 01:23:03 PM »

Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John

I rarely hear the CW ID on JT65. Why bother when your call shows up on every transmission.

Your call actually does NOT show up in every transmission if you ever use the free form text string field. The CW ID option ONLY works for the unformatted free text field and it will not transmit when using the canned formats. The idea is to allow CW ID in place of sending your callsign at the last exchange when most use the free form to put in antenna, power levels, state, etc. in a free form 13 character string.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
W5DQ
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 01:27:46 PM »

Hi all....

I wonder if it is ok to use the CW option when making JT65 contacts, it would be nice to see if its possible to have a CW contact also....most people use more power with JT65 than with WSPR.

I know they rather you don't use the CW option while running, wspr for bandwidth reasons but JT65 is wider (from memory).

John

In rereading this posting, it appears there might be some misunderstanding. The CW ID option, as far as I can tell, is ONLY for CW ID string, not for CW QSOs. I'm not sure about WSPR as I have never dealt with that software. I believe that WSJT will do some CW modes but JT65-HF does NOT do CW mode, only JT65.


Gene W5DQ
Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
VE3FMC
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 05:15:56 PM »

Hi all...

Yes and that ID option is what I am talking about....why don't people switch it on ?

John

I rarely hear the CW ID on JT65. Why bother when your call shows up on every transmission.

Your call actually does NOT show up in every transmission if you ever use the free form text string field. The CW ID option ONLY works for the unformatted free text field and it will not transmit when using the canned formats. The idea is to allow CW ID in place of sending your callsign at the last exchange when most use the free form to put in antenna, power levels, state, etc. in a free form 13 character string.

Gene W5DQ

I guess I missed the part where he added he was using the TX Text portion of the program. Of course I know your call does not show up when you send text using that option.

As far as the CW ID. what about operators like myself who have the AF gain turned down (volume)? We are not going to hear the weak signal CW ID

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VK2FAK
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Posts: 86




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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 09:05:12 PM »

Hi all...

Not sure if there is confusion here....maybe its me...

The CW option....you have 2 choices......send CW when you send the 73 or the free txt message.

the other choice is to ONLY send CW when you use the Free Txt  message...

And from my quick test then....it sends the message in JT65 format first  then sends only the callsign  in CW...........the CW callsign is the only difference to operation....if the Box is ticked, not a big drama at all..

if you have the audio gain down, you get no benefit, you don't lose anything either..

The way I see it is, you have the function there why not use it....if someone can make use of it, great if not no harm done..

John
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W5DQ
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 09:21:45 PM »


As far as the CW ID. what about operators like myself who have the AF gain turned down (volume)? We are not going to hear the weak signal CW ID


Whether or not you have your volume up isn't the issue as far as I see it.

In my understanding of it all (limited as it may be), the CW ID portion isn't so much for the receiving station to hear and understand as it is to meet the letter of the Part 97 that states we, as amateurs, are required to identify at the end of each transmission. If you're using the free form text string WITHOUT the CW ID and without your call in the text string, you are in essence, violating Part 97.

I use the CW ID on every free form text string I send out at the end of my sequence of exchanges seeing as how my default ending exchange is "2el##W LOTW73" where the ## = my power level in use for that QSO.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
VE3FMC
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 03:29:37 AM »


As far as the CW ID. what about operators like myself who have the AF gain turned down (volume)? We are not going to hear the weak signal CW ID


Whether or not you have your volume up isn't the issue as far as I see it.

In my understanding of it all (limited as it may be), the CW ID portion isn't so much for the receiving station to hear and understand as it is to meet the letter of the Part 97 that states we, as amateurs, are required to identify at the end of each transmission. If you're using the free form text string WITHOUT the CW ID and without your call in the text string, you are in essence, violating Part 97.

I use the CW ID on every free form text string I send out at the end of my sequence of exchanges seeing as how my default ending exchange is "2el##W LOTW73" where the ## = my power level in use for that QSO.

Gene W5DQ

I understand why you use the CW ID Gene, of course you need to ID at the end of the QSO so you do not violate the rules.

I doubt very much that the FCC or Industry Canada really cares about what happens on the ham bands in North America. So id'ing is not a big issue as far as I am concerned  Grin But sending the CW ID at the end of the QSO is not a big deal. I just think the OP has the wrong idea about using that ID method.
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KB2FCV
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2012, 11:52:25 AM »

WSJT has a CW mode I think, but that is geared towards the sequenced type messages. I suppose there is nothing stopping you from using WSJT cw mode on HF or anywhere else.

As for just having a CW QSO with that station, why not just QSY and use a set of CW paddles to work him?
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