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Author Topic: DISTRACTED DRIVING LAWS - a solution  (Read 7165 times)
N8NSN
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 02:54:25 PM »

Another Nanny Statist. You cannot make laws to force those without it to use common sense.  While you may be willing to have the government decide how and with whom you will spend you money, obama care, there are many of us who are not.  We don't need nor do we appreciate you suggesting the government force us to do so.

Something for you to consider.

Oh for Pete's sake - Really?

Obviously you've misinterpreted the scope of my prose. Break out the foil hat, don't drink the tap water, and keep the powder dry.

Sheese  Roll Eyes
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KCJ9091
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 07:32:02 PM »

Another Nanny Statist. You cannot make laws to force those without it to use common sense.  While you may be willing to have the government decide how and with whom you will spend you money, obama care, there are many of us who are not.  We don't need nor do we appreciate you suggesting the government force us to do so.

Something for you to consider.
Are you suggesting that enforcement of existing laws is a "Nanny" sort of action?

NO.  I was referring to the OP who wants to make yet another useless law to regulate a specific behavior, forcing citizens to pay a fee and submit to government indoctrination for the privilege of engaging in that behavior, when there are already laws on the books that can be used against those who unsafely operate their vehicle what ever the distraction.


N8NSN,

You said " I would GLADLY pay a reasonable fee for mobile commx safety courses."  Good for you.  I however would not be so.  Also I do not appreciate the implication that because some people do stupid things everyone must do the same stupid things so everyone should be punished, in advance, for the errors of others.

I do not now spend as much time on the highways as I have in the recent past.  I still, however, see drivers with books and newspapers propped up on the steering wheel driving at highway speed, This week there was one driver steering with his knees while holding a bowl in one hand and spoon in the other.  Then there is the driver turned around scolding the child in the back seat.  Or the driver with the visor down using the mirror on it to shave or apply make up.  All of these things should be done while stopped and there are already laws on the books against them yet people still do them. 

Having said all of that there is another aspect to being able to communicate by amateur or CB radio for those who spend many hours on the road.  The radio is a source of information.  It helps drivers to be aware of the conditions for one, giving them a chance to avoid hazards.  It also brings someone else into the vehicle to share the ride keeping the driver engaged and alert.

This "during the menial task of operating the motor vehicle" is another that I take exception with you on.  I suggest you look up the word menial.  Never mind, I'll do it for you: menial, adjective,
Definition:
relating to work which is uninteresting and doesn't require much skill or training

Proper operation of a motor vehicle requires a measure of training, skill, and yes, attentiveness.  It is not menial in any why, shape, or fashion.

Then you come up with this jewel "and VERY concerned as "We the People" allow our freedoms to be signed away with legislation and laws" after having said " Honestly, I hope someone with some legal/political pull reads or hears of the content of this post" implying you want someone to pass a law incorporating  your ideas.  Which is it, Freedom or more regulation?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 08:24:06 PM by KCJ9091 » Logged
NO2A
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 09:22:34 PM »

Awhile back in one of these forums,a state trooper said he`s never heard of an incident where a ham caused an accident from using a mobile rig. The people in NJ don`t even want to turn their lights on in the rain(which is illegal). They don`t know what proper following distance means. Then they hit someone and say,"how did that happen?" DUH!
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N8NSN
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 10:01:52 PM »



You said " I would GLADLY pay a reasonable fee for mobile commx safety courses."  Good for you.  I however would not be so.  Also I do not appreciate the implication that because some people do stupid things everyone must do the same stupid things so everyone should be punished, in advance, for the errors of others.

I do not now spend as much time on the highways as I have in the recent past.  I still, however, see drivers with books and newspapers propped up on the steering wheel driving at highway speed, This week there was one driver steering with his knees while holding a bowl in one hand and spoon in the other.  Then there is the driver turned around scolding the child in the back seat.  Or the driver with the visor down using the mirror on it to shave or apply make up.  All of these things should be done while stopped and there are already laws on the books against them yet people still do them. 

Having said all of that there is another aspect to being able to communicate by amateur or CB radio for those who spend many hours on the road.  The radio is a source of information.  It helps drivers to be aware of the conditions for one, giving them a chance to avoid hazards.  It also brings someone else into the vehicle to share the ride keeping the driver engaged and alert.

This "during the menial task of operating the motor vehicle" is another that I take exception with you on.  I suggest you look up the word menial.  Never mind, I'll do it for you: menial, adjective,
Definition:
relating to work which is uninteresting and doesn't require much skill or training

Proper operation of a motor vehicle requires a measure of training, skill, and yes, attentiveness.  It is not menial in any why, shape, or fashion.

Then you come up with this jewel "and VERY concerned as "We the People" allow our freedoms to be signed away with legislation and laws" after having said " Honestly, I hope someone with some legal/political pull reads or hears of the content of this post" implying you want someone to pass a law incorporating  your ideas.  Which is it, Freedom or more regulation?

All I'm saying is the writing is on the wall. Go read the QST article Jerry. You're babbling at this point, which is typical from uninformed folks. Talking loud and saying nothing.

Clearly, you misunderstand what was said. I may not be as well worded as you come off... What I'll say, so you'll understand it, is that if legislation passes where it takes a "course" to retain my op mobile privs, because some lot of dummies make us have to pay the price for their stupidity and/or inability to control their vehicle, and amateur ops are lumped in as "mobile commx devise" - I'll gladly take the dummy proofing course. Heck, maybe I'll teach it.

Further more, driving IS A MENIAL TASK !!! I'm still laughing on your description that suggests otherwise. Perhaps it isn't menial to some, but to most it really is. Have a good weekend, Jerry.

Dit dit
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NK7Z
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2012, 10:11:21 PM »

Lets all face it...  This will end with rules forcing everyone to be treated as if the lowest common denominator is the norm...  Does not matter what we say or think...  At best the government will deal with it as they do everything else, make another law, when there are already laws on the books to deal with it... 

I am sorry to see this...  However that IS how this will shake out...
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Dave
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K1CJS
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2012, 06:00:07 AM »

I was everyone's "nanny" for many years and I can tell you the problem is you can't catch them all! In fact, you can't even catch most of them. I found the best and most effective answer was educating the public to gain voluntary compliance.  Wink  
Hi,

You sound like you have Law Enforcement experience...  First off: THANK YOU!  Do you think that having laws which cause a rather hefty fine, and perhaps some jail time help reduce the total numbers of distracted drivers out there?  Would a good solution be to couple hefty fines/jail time with education?  How effective do you think education is in reducing the population of DDers?


Best you get some real law enforcement opinions instead of relying on this--all too many police will tell you that all those extra, more specific laws do is to cause more paperwork and let more people off the hook because of technicalities than using the existing more generalized laws.

If this overprotected society would just stop the idea of "the state will take care of us" and go back to actually taking more responsibility for their own actions and not take foolish chances to begin with, the number of incidents that cause calls for these nanny laws would drop to nearly nothing.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2012, 06:10:10 AM »

...Further more, driving IS A MENIAL TASK !!! I'm still laughing on your description that suggests otherwise. Perhaps it isn't menial to some, but to most it really is....

Driving should not be considered a 'menial task', not at all.  A typical driver is guiding a one to two ton slow moving missile down public roads, a missile that can do considerable damage to anyone and anything if the driver's attention is taken off what he/she is doing--even for a second.

The attitude you have--that driving is a menial task--is what causes all too many accidents and incidents such as the ones that this thread is concerned with.  Drivers with that attitude shouldn't even be allowed behind the wheel.  Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2012, 06:21:58 AM »

Quote
If this overprotected society would just stop the idea of "the state will take care of us" and go back to actually taking more responsibility for their own actions and not take foolish chances to begin with, the number of incidents that cause calls for these nanny laws would drop to nearly nothing.

As much as I agree with you, I really doubt that will ever happen...  I fear that everyone expects the state to care for them in all aspects of life...  We have Distracted Driver laws on the books now, and they are not being enforced; and I don't want to hear about budgets being tight.  The "state" gets way too much money as it is for everything...  Heck, we built a jail here, had a bond vote and all, then we discover, (after the jail is built), we have to let out felons because there is no money to house them in the new jail...  Same with our library here...  We spent millions on it, then we find out that it costs 11 million bucks every three years to run, that's a little over 10K a day to run...  Nice job planning...  But I digress and will self immolate if I continue...

It is almost as if a preemptive strike is being attempted with all of the additional overlapping laws...  Just fine the heck out of every distracted driver, and jail the really bad ones...  In a perfect world, I would just throw out the cell phone laws, and focus on the issue, not the cause...   If you can't drive safely, you lose your license, and/or go to jail based on how you demonstrated your inability to drive...  Period...

73's,
Dave
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 06:24:01 AM by NK7Z » Logged

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Dave
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WD5GWY
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2012, 10:00:48 AM »



Further more, driving IS A MENIAL TASK !!! I'm still laughing on your description that suggests otherwise. Perhaps it isn't menial to some, but to most it really is. Have a good weekend, Jerry.

Dit dit

I too have to disagree with this statement. Driving is not, and should not be
considered a menial task. I drive an 18 wheeler for a living (over 40 years) and I can tell you from experience, it is anything but "menial". That type of attitude is what gets people killed on our highways every day.
  Since Distracted Driving laws are already on the books, they should be enforced. But, seldom are they enforced. Adding more laws is not the answer.
Enforcement of existing laws is. Too many times I have seen people do ANYTHING, but pay attention to their driving. It is a daily occurrence, and sad too. Too many lives are lost from accidents from people, reading, eating, texting, (one of my pet peeves) and countless other activities, other than PAYING ATTENTION to what a driver is supposed to be doing, driving and driving safely. There should be nothing you have to do while driving that is so important that it draws your attention away from paying attention to the cars and trucks around you and what they and you, are doing. Not paying attention could cost you, your loved ones, or even a stranger your life.
  Some things, like talking on a radio or even using a Blue Tooth wireless headset and talking(cell phone and even some CB's) while driving, are not nearly as distracting as some things I've seen.
I could recount some of them, but, that would, at some point rate this post as X-rated !!!
james
WD5GWY
     
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AA4PB
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2012, 10:20:31 AM »

I agree that overall, amateur radio is NOT the problem. The problem is cell phone usage, especially texting, but unfortunately we are likely to get caught in the broad net of regulation. Few state lawmakers are very likely to think about, and include an exemption for amateur radio.

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N8NSN
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 05:16:14 AM »

For quite some time I have been posting articles on eHam. Several elmers posts and only recently mobile forum. For some time, been noticing more and more an influx of people commenting in a way to tout "their superiority" instead of offering anything productive. The "everything is a conspiracy", "I would have done it this way", "Oh you're so dangerous, but I...", yadda yadda yadda.

I sincerely feel none of the initial offerings from the PC or iPhone here have ever been suggestive of a "superiority mentality" emanating from my thoughts. There are several instances where things were taken apart in the article or post and some really great progress and additions were made to the projects.

However...

Our hobby IS DYING because of bitter attitudes.
...I, I , I...
...well, the way you're doing it is wrong, then not offering any real suggestion
...instead of elmering- taking the superiority attitude
...I've been doing this for 40 years, therefor your statement is wrong...
...99.999% of people have no idea idea what the other has done in their life nor what level of experience that person has in anything.
...obviously some are insulted when they ASSUME the other considers what they do for a living, menial.

Just to address that one, OTR was my living in the 80s. Nothing menial a obout driving "professionally" with GVWs of 80k. Saw the Owner Operator market dying and went back to being an electrician... Not important... Daily commuting IS MENIAL if a driver is simply aware of their surroundings, AND has enough time behind the wheel to know necessary evasive actions to take in any multitude of situations. Be aware their are indeed idiots sharing the road... Enough of that.

Surely the good comments and the constructive criticisms FAR outweigh the other ones, but it doesn't take much dung to leave most with a bitter taste in their mouth and I am just like most on that. I'm tasting bitterness from all the negativity here, as well as a lot of other nonproductive areas.

Not really sure what to say, now. Not certain what it is at this point, that even needs addressed. Not sure if some of the commenters on the eHam forums even realize what an g-ass they come off as, if they do, do they even care. Not sure how much of an g-ass I come off as, but I do care, and, and just try to share what little i've ever learned, along with attempting to learn as I go. Yes, you will see me fire off venom when approached with a wheel cart full of dung, I have NO EXCUSES  for any of that... Perhaps, this is why the feeling that this great hobby is dying, emanates...

Nothing more to say for now. But, surely - I'll post again eventually.

73?
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K1CJS
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2012, 06:44:32 AM »

....Just to address that one, OTR was my living in the 80s. Nothing menial a obout driving "professionally" with GVWs of 80k. Saw the Owner Operator market dying and went back to being an electrician... Not important... Daily commuting IS MENIAL if a driver is simply aware of their surroundings, AND has enough time behind the wheel to know necessary evasive actions to take in any multitude of situations. Be aware their are indeed idiots sharing the road...

And you now consider driving menial?  If you did indeed have the training and held a commercial drivers license (yes, I did too) then your attitude is puzzling.  I still hold a commercial license, but likewise haven't driven a commercial vehicle in over ten years.  I still believe that any sort of driving is not menial, for the simple reason that a moving vehicle can do considerable damage whether it weighs one ton--or forty.  Things are constantly changing, road conditions, roadside hazards, construction--even the 'idiot' who just graduated from a car to an SUV and believes that he is now invincible!

Having years behind the wheel, knowing evasive actions and being 'simply' aware of your surroundings aren't enough these days with the 'idiots' out there playing with their toys, eating--or doing what they should have done before leaving the house to make themselves look good!

It's been said here before that getting a ham license is just the beginning--that a ham learns more every day.  It's too bad that the same thing isn't realized about getting a driver's license, BECAUSE IT IS EVEN MORE TRUE IN THAT CASE!  Sadly, all too many people look at driving as 'menial' and forget basic safety and rules of the road until they're either in the hospital following an accident--or in the local courtroom because of the harm they've caused to someone or some person's property.

And that brings us right back to the 'solution' proposed at the beginning of the thread and the problems that the entire thread is outlining.  There is no excuse for distracted driving, and there is no solution such as what is proposed by the originator of the thread.  The best way to go is this--if you're having to make contact with someone that will take a considerable part of your attention away from driving--PULL OVER AND STOP!  Public safety personnel may have an excuse for not doing so, but they also have way more experience than the average citizen.  Safety first is the ONLY way to go.
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KCJ9091
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2012, 10:01:03 AM »

Not sure how much of an g-ass I come off as,

If the g is an abbreviation Gigantic you hit the nail on the head.
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N8NSN
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« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2012, 11:37:53 AM »

Not sure how much of an g-ass I come off as,

If the g is an abbreviation Gigantic you hit the nail on the head.

Jerry,

You and I are finished with any attempts to communicate. YOU are the exact kind of thread troll that very few like in any forum.

Before I let you go 10/10 there good buddy; I'm wondering if you're using the old CB radio license call sign, thoughnow you too are a ham, is because you don't want any of your newer ham 'friends' to know you're a thread troll on a ham radio majority internet site. Go ahead and remove anyones doubt of what an a s s you truly are.

You Jerry, know about me, only the mere glimpses of what I am willing to share. It is said, those who talk badly of others only do so because the things that others do which irritate us the most are the things we too dislike about ourselves. You obviously loathe all the things about my life that you only wish you could have in yours. You've probably been trolling my QRZ profile and, though you would be the very last to admit it, envy my beautiful wife, ride, and life. If you want so badly to have a life - go get one!

If I were in your shoes, I would hide with an old useless CB radio call sign, too.

Save your retort, Jerry, you're done here.
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KCJ9091
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« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2012, 03:38:05 PM »

I made an honest attempt to engage you in a conversation, you are the one who chose to turn it into a urinating contest.  I quoted your statements that I disagreed with and stated why I disagreed with them.  Your response "You're babbling at this point" and "I'm still laughing on your description".  Very classy and bordering on that which you accuse others of, trollish.  BTW, the consensus here appears to agree with me that it is you how is mistaken on driving being a menial task.  You cannot legislate common sense.  New laws are not the answer to every problem, especially when there are laws on the books that can be applied to cover the situation.

I am so glad we are done with communicating.  I deal with enough boorish trolls already one less that I have to deal with will be a pleasant reprieve.

Since you claim such a high level of superiority perhaps you could use your vasts skills to use the search to find the post I made concerning my radio resume.  Or are you too lazy?

BUH BYE!
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