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Author Topic: Not a scam, but someone to be aware of (KF7SWC)  (Read 4319 times)
KD0PFK
Member

Posts: 2




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« on: October 23, 2012, 05:35:42 PM »

I replied to an add from KF7SWC posted on 10-21 and wrote that I would pay the paypal and shipping fees.  He responded (10-22) and wanted to know my address. I replied with my address.  I later received an email from him (10-23 16:37) that said that he HAD been in a bidding war and sold the item for a lot more than he had been asking.  I never received an email informing me of the other bids nor asking me if I would care to increase my bid.
While I did not lose any money, I still view this a a poor way to treat a fellow HAM.

The following is the entire email chain that I have.  (I have x'd out the address and last names.  Not that that would stop anyone from finding out who the primary parties are of course, but at least you'll have to do a few seconds of work).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Paul,
 
I couldn't wait anymore.  This darned book ended up in a bidding war with emails flying in constantly and I sold it for alot more than what I was selling it for.  Take care and sorry.
 
John


From: Paul <pfkxxxxx@charter.net>
To: John Berenyi <jbxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: Inquiry into: Collins R390 &R390A Books



John,
    My address is:
63 xxxxxxxx Dr.
xxxxxxx, MO 63xxx
 
 
"In God We Trust"
----- Original Message -----
From: John Berenyi
To: KD0xxx@ARRL.net
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Inquiry into: Collins R390 &R390A Books


Hello Paul,
 
The manual is still available.  I need your address so I can figure out what shipping is.  This manual is thick and somewhat heavy.  Then I can give you the Paypal total.
 
John




From: "webuser@kona.eham.net" <webuser@kona.eham.net>
To: jbxxxxx@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:17 AM
Subject: Inquiry into: Collins R390 &R390A Books



An inquiry into your eHam classifieds post: Collins R390 &amp;R390A Books

Hi,
I'm interested in the NavShips manual.  Is it still available?
If it is, what form of payment do you accept.  I prefer to pay by PayPal and I will pay all PayPal fees + shipping.

Thanks,
Paul Kxxxx
KD0xxx

From: KD0xxx [KD0xxx@ARRL.net]
[This message is sent from eHam.net to preserve your email identity.
Replying to this email will send a reply to the originator and will then expose your email address]


 
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K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6034




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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 04:22:11 AM »

Hey, at least he had the decency to let you know.  But, just as I said in another thread, the motivational source in this country is no longer the almighty God, it's the almighty dollar.
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K4EZD
Member

Posts: 93




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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 05:43:34 AM »

I see nothing unusual about this.  It represents the American entrepreneurial capitalistic spirit.  He was polite enough to respond to you to give you an update on what happened which is more than often occurs.  Business is business.   Grin


 
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AG6WT
Member

Posts: 453




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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 01:00:52 PM »

Two lessons here:

1) The seller should have given a deadline for the buyer to respond with his address, something like "I need your destination address within 12 hours so I can give you a final price otherwise I will consider other offers. Once I give you the final price, I need confirmation within the next 12 hours of your intention to pay otherwise I will consider other offers."

I have done this after I've had a few prospective buyers send me an email saying they want the item then never get back to me when I try to close the deal. Meanwhile I've got other hams asking for the item and I'm putting them on the back burner because I don't like pulling the rug out from a legitimate buyer who contacted me first. Putting in a deadlines for info and payment often means I can complete a deal from initial inquiry to payment by Paypal within 24 hours. And of course my obligation then is to get the package out by the next business day.

2) The buyer should reply to emails immediately if possible. In this day of smart phones, there is little reason why you can't receive and reply to emails within minutes. If you don't have a smart phone and are away from a computer for the day, say for work, says so in an email, that way the seller knows that you haven't changed your mind.

Ray KJ6AMF
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W8GP
Member

Posts: 213




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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 06:12:58 AM »

Sorry, but get real, you just have to deal with it. I've had friends and even my own brother sell stuff from underneath me. Just remember, "Money talks and Bulls**t walks!"
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NK7Z
Member

Posts: 799


WWW

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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 10:29:03 AM »

Hi,

Can someone state how exactly a transaction should go on here?  I recently purchased a part from an ad for a device which was being parted out...  Called the person to verify the part was for sale still, it was, and then sent money via PP.  About three hours later I found a refund, and a statement that someone bought the entire device.

While I understand that it is preferable to sell the entire device, I at least would have called the person, (me in this case), and discussed it, as money had changed hands...  This somewhat bothers me, as I would not act in such a manner.  Is this an unreasonable mindset I have?

This also brings up the questionable practice in which I see something for sale, on here or QRZ, then see the same item being auctioned on eBay, I know it is the same item, because the photo is exactly the same, and it is not the makers promo photo...  How does that work?

73's
Dave
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
AG6WT
Member

Posts: 453




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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2012, 01:31:17 PM »

Dave,

Your concern is warranted. By calling the seller, agreeing on the price for the part and getting the seller's Paypal deposit information is, in my opinion, the same as a handshake in a face-to-face transaction. For you not to follow through with payment or for the seller to then accept other offers is dishonorable.

Ray KJ6AMF
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MDNITERDER
Member

Posts: 146




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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 02:56:12 PM »

I have to agree, its like you winning something on ebay, then the seller retracting it because someone offered him a bid offline or on the side then retracting yours.

 At least there you know of other bidders. If someone offered him more and you were that close to the purchase with already setting up payment and shipping quotes the most honorable thing he could have done was called you up and said I was offered x amount would you like to match it or beat it. In reality, If he advertised it for xx amount and you two agreed no matter what someone else offered for it, It tarnished his image.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 02:59:06 PM by MDNITERDER » Logged
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 799


WWW

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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 03:02:04 PM »

Dave,

Your concern is warranted. By calling the seller, agreeing on the price for the part and getting the seller's Paypal deposit information is, in my opinion, the same as a handshake in a face-to-face transaction. For you not to follow through with payment or for the seller to then accept other offers is dishonorable.

Ray KJ6AMF
Hi,

OK...  It is not just me that thinks this sort of behavior is wrong then...  I actually had sent payment, and the seller had to refund it...  This sort of thing is becoming more and more prevalent on all ham swap boards in the last few years... 

Thanks for the input here...
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 799


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 03:02:56 PM »

I have to agree, its like you winning something on ebay, then the seller retracting it because someone offered him a bid offline or on the side then retracting yours.

 At least there you know of other bidders. If someone offered him more and you were that close to the purchase with already setting up payment and shipping quotes the most honorable thing he could have done was called you up and said I was offered x amount would you like to match it or beat it. In reality, If he advertised it for xx amount and you two agreed no matter what someone else offered for it, It tarnished his image.
Hi,
Yes it does, I will not do business with the person again...  Thanks!
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
AE6Y
Member

Posts: 30




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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 02:09:32 PM »

I mildly disagree.  Your original email never said you would buy the item if it was still available -- you just asked if if was still available.  I think the seller reasonably didn't think that either side had committed to a transaction.  If you had said you had changed your mind, instead of sending your address, I don't think he would have had any cause to be upset with you for backing out of a deal-in-progress.
  73, andy ae6y
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AC4RD
Member

Posts: 1235




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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 03:42:27 PM »

// calling the seller, agreeing on the price for the part and getting the seller's Paypal deposit information is, in my opinion, the same as a handshake in a face-to-face transaction. For you not to follow through with payment or for the seller to then accept other offers is dishonorable.

Ray, I'm 100% with you on that one.  If you have an agreed deal with someone, and that person backs out because he got a better offer, he's a slimy weasel.  It used to be that you could TRUST a man's handshake.  Now it means nothing.
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 619




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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 08:30:34 PM »

I'm not sure that I agree with the consensus here.  In my opinion, until I have money in my hands, either in full or partial, if previously agreed to, the item is NOT sold and is available. 
I don't use the internet to sell items on the rare occasion that I sell anything at all, but I have made commitments to buy things that are "suddenly" not available for whatever reason.  Occasionally disappointing but usually a non issue.  There's always "more" or "better" out there and I don't have to have "that particular item".  Once someone takes my money or cashes my check, that's another story, though.  Now, I have money at stake and ALL my expenses need to be repaid and VERY promptly or there are going to be issues.  If that is done, I am satisfied.
Tom
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KB5ZSM
Member

Posts: 70




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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 12:22:42 AM »

I believe it's time for you guys to study-up on 'Contract Law'. I think you will find that the seller in this case was in the wrong. This one line in the email sums up a contract "The manual is still available.  I need your address so I can figure out what shipping is.  This manual is thick and somewhat heavy.  Then I can give you the Paypal total." The seller did not make any mention of time restraints for a reply. I will show this thread to a friend of mine who is a District Judge and see what he says, but I'll bet he backs my opinion on this matter.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 12:26:36 AM by KB5ZSM » Logged
KB5ZSM
Member

Posts: 70




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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 12:59:52 PM »

I met with the judge today and I stand corrected. The buyer only stated that he was interested, not that he was going to purchase so as a result no contract or agreement had been formed. Seller did nothing wrong.
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