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Author Topic: why?  (Read 539 times)
M0JHA
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Posts: 647




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« on: November 02, 2008, 01:28:40 PM »

Why do some people insist on making silly tunes up when sending morse,Or respond to a slow call at the speed of lightning?

I was listening tonight and heard more than one station doing this. One was obveously calling cq along with his call but with a whole range of dash lengths at various speeds turning it into some sort of mad tune.
 It was being sent at around 20wpm so surely if they had made the effort to do morse at this speed why havn't they at least made an effort to send a character (s) correctly. I only wish i was a good enough cw op so i could politly ask them what the hell they are sending.

It's very frustrating when you are still getting to grips with morse and like myself run low power so all contacts are a bonus only to have someone respond with things i'v never heard before.

Or i will send a call out at 12wpm to get a response at 25 plus wpm??? I have stopped asking to QRS as i think its bad manners to respond at that rate so simply ignore and call again..

I had a reply yesterday with a guy who couldn't get his callsign across without three tries and a whole load of dits correcting himself ,two of the calls were not the same??because he was trying to go faster than he obveously could.. If he can't tell me his call how the hell do i get it ?

These are not the norm and thankfully most contacts i have had have been great and im enjoying the challenge and only use cw now but felt the need for a moan..  

billy m0jha
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KN1W
Member

Posts: 76




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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 05:56:11 PM »

Hi Bill,

In my humble opinion, The alternative is a lot glimmer. Listening to 80 meters phone or the higher part of 20 m I have witnessed some very ugly QSOs, People and their mothers get brought up in conversations. I find the incidence of this type of behavior almost non-existent in Morse Qsos. Tolerating a bad operator takes a lot of patience, but those hams who had the inclination to wait for our bad cw manners/fist have shaped us into better ops, I guess we can lead by example. I am definitely not there yet, but I will like to get there eventually.

Please, Don't get me wrong, I agree in all your points.

Take Care
de KN1W
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N2EY
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Posts: 3833




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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 06:04:41 AM »

M0JHA writes: "One was obveously calling cq along with his call but with a whole range of dash lengths at various speeds turning it into some sort of mad tune.
It was being sent at around 20wpm so surely if they had made the effort to do morse at this speed why havn't they at least made an effort to send a character (s) correctly. I only wish i was a good enough cw op so i could politly ask them what the hell they are sending."

There's a couple of possibilities.

1)The person has some kind of disability and doesn't realize/can't control the variation.

2)The person hasn't used that kind of key before (bug or straight key) and is learning that the key does not correct for slight timing errors like electronic paddles do.

3)[IMHO least likely] the person either doesn't care or is intentionally doing it for some odd reason.

M0JHA:"It's very frustrating when you are still getting to grips with morse and like myself run low power so all contacts are a bonus only to have someone respond with things i'v never heard before."

Agreed, but consider te possibility that the reason for the variation is 1) or 2).

M0JHA: "Or i will send a call out at 12wpm to get a response at 25 plus wpm???"

Same as above.

M0JHA: "I have stopped asking to QRS as i think its bad manners to respond at that rate so simply ignore and call again.."

NO.

Yes, it's bad manners to respond at a faster pace but the responder may not realize it. IMHO it's also bad manners not to ask for a QRS; the other op cannot read your mind to see that the reason you're not answering is because s/he's going too fast.

M0JHA: "I had a reply yesterday with a guy who couldn't get his callsign across without three tries and a whole load of dits correcting himself ,two of the calls were not the same??because he was trying to go faster than he obveously could.. If he can't tell me his call how the hell do i get it ?"

Consider that he might be 1) or 2), listed above.

M0JHA: "These are not the norm and thankfully most contacts i have had have been great and im enjoying the challenge and only use cw now but felt the need for a moan.."

One thing to always remember is that we were once all beginners. In the bad old days there were serious tests of sending and receiving skill, so everyone you heard on the air had at least a certain basic skill level, but those days are long gone. Everybody has to learn somehow, and IMHO the best teacher is example.

There's also the fact that Morse Code is really a set of skills, not just one skill, and a person can be very good at some and not-so-good at others.

This doesn't mean we should accept just any old sloppiness. But by the same if we insist on absolute 100% perfection out of the gate we're going to be disappointed.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N3QE
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Posts: 2024




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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 12:15:12 PM »

A couple of points:

1. Some people really like their "stylistic" CW over standard CW. I think there is some room for this, certainly it makes sense to have a good distinctive fist, but the ones that bother me are when in an attempt at being distinctive they make their keying substantially worse. Sometimes this gets taken to extremes, like you heard, which greatly limit the ability of anyone to copy it.

1a: Strangely enough, the stylistic twists often get attached to the senders own callsigns, resulting in nobody being able to copy it. OOPS!!

1b: There are some hams who are not as dextrously able as they were in previous years (regardless of their actual calendar age) and really do have a hard time keying. Cut them some slack, or a lot of slack. I try to cut them a lot of slack.

2. It's rude to reply back at a vastly higher speed but lots of people with computer or keyboard-based keyers honestly don't have a good handle on how fast they're sending. As you get further and further away from the straight key (e.g. keyer, fancy-pants keyer, keyboard) this happens more and more. It's not really an excuse but more of an explanation.

The good news is, I worked the CW sweepstakes this weekend, and a lot of poor, stylistic fists that I had heard in previous years or previous contests seemed to no longer be around. Folks who previously had put stylistic twists on their callsigns were nowhere to be seen, I think they learned their lessons!

Tim.
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AB9NZ
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Posts: 176




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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 01:35:37 PM »

 A keyboard sure is easy to copy, but I enjoy hearing the stylistic sending. It's really cool to hear a couple of Morse musicians when they get into a bugtussle.
    73 Folks, de Tom, AB9NZ
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M0JHA
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Posts: 647




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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 01:53:51 PM »

Thanks for all the positive replies. I honestly thought i was going to get a hard time.

Some very good points i never thought of and i honestly wouldn't mind the odd twists some put on the keying style if i was experienced enough to manage to sus out what they actually were meaning to send.

again thanks and i will no longer be ignorant now i have had an explination for why some may send too fast a reply.

billy

Im sure i heard someone play tootie fruite by little richard  the other night though :-)
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K5END
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Posts: 1309




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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 02:17:20 PM »


"Both" of my CW/Morse QSOs saw me sending poorly, like the ones under discussion.

QTH: Houston.

1st QSO: answered a 17 meter CQ from California a week ago. Had made the horizontal dipole that morning myself. During the QSO I was having hand freeze. Unexplained. Nervous, I guess. The op was patient and encouraging.

2nd QSO: called CQ on 20 meters Saturday and got a response from Virginia. I'd made that antenna also. This was also the first time I'd ever used the FT-450AT. It worked fine. This one went much better, but there is still much practice to be done. This op was also very encouraging and apparently was able to read what I was sending.

Was doing around 9 WPM according to the K5, but the first thing I did during each QSO was send "QRS PLS." And they did, without any fuss. They said it was a pleasure doing the QSO and welcome to the world of CW.

In other words, it was NOTHING like an INTERNET conversation.

Smiley

And it was a heck of a lot of fun.

Ironic thing is I was able to copy much better than send. That's backwards, isn't it? I blame G$FON for that, hihi. But at this rate of improvement I'll be: "FB SUN OM. TNX 4 QSO es LMRNG. 73 HPE CUAGN SUN de K5END."
 
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K5END
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Posts: 1309




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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 02:33:16 PM »

"Im sure i heard someone play tootie fruite by little richard the other night though :-) "

Maybe Little Richard is licensed?

Maybe that song lyric in the intro is really his vanity call sign, "W1BPLP"

OR, ORRR! ...even better, Morse code as the beat to, "TEN AM" (sound it out.)
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W8ZNX
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2008, 01:25:24 AM »

there are all kinds of ops
remember hand sent morse code
using a straight key or bug

often does not sound like machine sent morse code

old time ops straight key and bug ops
can tell who is sending simply by their fist

you can not simply
slow down and speed up the dits send by
semiautomatic/bug keys
without making more than one ajustment

and still many will not go slower than 25 wpm

my main stay slow bug sends dits at about 22 wpm
only way to slow down
is to send longer dahs and use more letter/word spacing

one could say why does not everybody
in the UK speak the Queens English

just try to get some old Scottish guy at a pub in Durnes
to speak the Queens English

same goes for some morse ops

more time you spend listening to diffrent fists
the easier it will get

mac
dit
dit
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2753




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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2008, 08:35:25 AM »

Try "BENS BEST BENT WIRE".
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
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