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Author Topic: Why the Kenwood 990 is for achievers, the educated and the affluent  (Read 10430 times)
WA4D
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Posts: 99


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« on: February 03, 2013, 02:55:14 PM »

As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA
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WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 393




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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 03:13:39 PM »

As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA

I'm a truck driver and have been to both the Getty and MOMA. (and yes, I know what MOMA means) Occupation does not necessarily equate to education or intelligence.
  Your remarks are very condescending and I'm sure you will get plenty of responses. A radio
that is as expensive as the TS-990 will sound no different than any other radio on the other end
of a qso. What people wish to spend their money on is their business. Even if they cannot afford it.  Maybe you should form an elite Amateur forum that only wealthy people such as yourself
can participate in. That way, you won't have to lower yourself to read the remarks of the masses!
 Roll Eyes

james
WD5GWY
   
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 04:09:40 PM »

Check out what the Collins KWM-2 cost when it was the new kid on the block, then adjust for inflation in today's dollars. 

It is good to have both Minis and Ferraris and all the other models and types in between all on the market at the same time. 

73
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WA4D
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Posts: 99


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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 04:30:05 PM »

Yes, James we agree.  Though few truck drivers go to the Getty or MOMA. (What kind of truck do you drive?)

My remarks are condescending only to those in denial. Class awareness often offends those that are not above the middle. Why? Because so many aspire to be what they are not.

Your idea for an "elite" forum is a good one!
 
 As you read the moaning posts of those who can't afford the Kenwood
 TS990 "for years to come" one wonders why do these people comment on
what they cannot have???
 There is a Maseratti dealer literally walking distance from my front
door, but I don't go over there and drool over what I cannot have.

 I'd like to see a closed off section of the forum that required say, a
 Credit Score of 650 or better and a net worth of $500K Plus to join and post graduate education.
(Anti intellectualism is wide spread in Ham radio, but formal education does matter.)
 
This would be an"elite" members only section as you so insightfully suggest..
That way these "superior" members of the forum wouldn't have to be subjected to
the constant wail of the lesserclasses.

 Perhaps give the unqualified masses "Read Only" privileges so they could
 learn from their "betters". Of course the Forum "Elites" could enter
 the low end portion of the forum and interact as they wish and yet be
 able to return to the refuge of the "Elite" section as needed.

Since verification of such credentials would require background checks, the individual seeking membership
in the Elite Forum would have to pay for backend costs. A pittance for people of means!

Great Idea! Assuming you'll be on the outside looking in,  I'll still say "Hi James" from inside the elite forum. No snob here!!!

Thanks for the comment.  Cheers from LA
Mike/wa4d
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 04:38:11 PM by WA4D » Logged
AC2EU
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Posts: 363


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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 04:42:18 PM »

Quote
Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown.

ROFLMAO!!!   Roll Eyes

I'm just curious about what you do for a living that has perched you so high above us mere mortals!

It sounds like you are more interested in your perceived stature than anything of substance.
So far you, the superior wordsmith, have failed to make the case for this radio other than saying that because you can afford to buy one and some others can not, makes it worth the money. As a status symbol maybe, but as a practical matter, I seriously doubt it. Your Mercedes doesn't make you a better driver either!

I know some "audiophiles", but you are the first "radiophile" I have ever come across.

Jesssh!


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W5KAP
Member

Posts: 41




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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 07:00:25 PM »

As I have offered elsewhere, the TS-990 in my view is a paridigm shift in operating concept. Some critics offer one line rejection of the radio without marshaling a case for their view.  Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential. Nor will they be able to respond to the radio's  operational enhancements and nuance.  It is analogous to a truck driver going to the Getty (Art Museum) or MOMA in NYC. For the most part, the working class and uneducated have little interest in Art.. So it is proper that this radio is built for the affluent and sophisticated operator.

(Just as an Art museum has classes for appreciation and engagement of Art, so should Kenwood offer same to Hams who have scant experience or understanding of how to engage a high end feature rich radio). Especially since most Hams use sub $2000 entry radios that are passed off as faux base stations. (i.e. TS590, FT 950, etc.) The radios  these hams are accustomed to are less expensive and primitive. A proper rig for the vast majority of hams.  (Though my guess is most 990 buyers will be sophisticated users. But some will try to come in the back door. they always do.)

 Here in America, Socio-Economic standing is often measured by possessions. Our culture invented the mass market and conspicuous consumption. We have youth who shoot and kill each other over a pair of athletic shoes. The average American household carries thousands of dollars in debt often to buy goods they don't need. Many hams subscribe to these practices as well.
 
 Material possessions in the US are a mark of success or lack thereof. Homes, autos, clothes, jewelry,etc. And yes, Class matters. Though we may differ on the definition of the structure. Some hams dismiss new expensive radios, because of their low economic status and inability to afford the radio. Class resentment is not a mirage as sociological studies have shown. It drives politics, attitudes and behavior. Indeed it defines entire groups (sometimes unfairly)

The critics of the 990  are most often found to be from the lower operating classes and are hams who have little experience with high end radios. Though I have no authoritative metrics, many self admitted Hams of modest means have declared they cannot afford the 990. 

The majority of Hams  can't write a check for $8000+. (It is a hobby after all)  If an $8000 discretionary spending decision will impact your life, requires pleading with a spouse or will be a financial burden, then clearly this radio is not for you. But this is America, where many live financially reckless lives and borrow to have what they can't afford.  Give it up and get a TS-520. You'll still have fun. And it's your proper place!

Comments welcome!

Cheers from LA


What a troll. I seriously thought we, as a society , were moving beyond such bunk. And your post was pure bunk (I'm being nice)

De W5KAP
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73 de Kenn
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 393




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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 07:12:56 PM »

Yes, James we agree.  Though few truck drivers go to the Getty or MOMA. (What kind of truck do you drive?)

My remarks are condescending only to those in denial. Class awareness often offends those that are not above the middle. Why? Because so many aspire to be what they are not.

Your idea for an "elite" forum is a good one!
 
 As you read the moaning posts of those who can't afford the Kenwood
 TS990 "for years to come" one wonders why do these people comment on
what they cannot have???
 There is a Maseratti dealer literally walking distance from my front
door, but I don't go over there and drool over what I cannot have.

 I'd like to see a closed off section of the forum that required say, a
 Credit Score of 650 or better and a net worth of $500K Plus to join and post graduate education.
(Anti intellectualism is wide spread in Ham radio, but formal education does matter.)
 
This would be an"elite" members only section as you so insightfully suggest..
That way these "superior" members of the forum wouldn't have to be subjected to
the constant wail of the lesserclasses.

 Perhaps give the unqualified masses "Read Only" privileges so they could
 learn from their "betters". Of course the Forum "Elites" could enter
 the low end portion of the forum and interact as they wish and yet be
 able to return to the refuge of the "Elite" section as needed.

Since verification of such credentials would require background checks, the individual seeking membership
in the Elite Forum would have to pay for backend costs. A pittance for people of means!

Great Idea! Assuming you'll be on the outside looking in,  I'll still say "Hi James" from inside the elite forum. No snob here!!!

Thanks for the comment.  Cheers from LA
Mike/wa4d

Mike, I'm glad you like my idea of an elite forum. You should take it further and develop
and maintain a separate website from this one. That way, you have complete control of
content, and can keep out the "lower classes". In fact, it could be "Invitation Only".
Credit checks alone would not be enough. What with internet fraud being so rampant these
days, you will have to take further measures to avoid the riffraff of the Amateur Radio community.  You could charge an even larger annual fee that way, to offset your costs to maintain such a website. You'd be the talk of the internet and the Amateur Radio community. (even more than you already are)  Wink
 As for me, I think I'll stick to the more lower class websites and forums. Not because I would not
want to associate with others such as yourself, but, because I have some self respect and would not want to sully my, otherwise stellar, reputation!  Grin
james
WD5GWY

Oh, as for what kind of truck I drive, it's a 2007 Kenworth. The company I work for builds and maintains oil and gas well drilling sites. My part is really quite simple, (in keeping with my low class status) I drive a rock truck, delivering rock(mostly roadbase) to those sites.
In other words, my company and I, help in the process of getting the Natural Gas and Oil, that you and millions of others, take for granted each and every day.
  
  
 
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KI4DYA
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Posts: 13




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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 07:47:46 PM »

Seriously, guys.  A quick Google search and you'll realize he's just a troll.  A pretty amateur one at that.

Edit:  And you'd think an $8000 radio would have a better proofreader for their ad copy.  If, in fact, it shows its 'metal' during a contest something is horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 07:55:22 PM by KI4DYA » Logged
WA4D
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Posts: 99


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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 07:54:48 PM »

But of course You drive a Kenworth James!  Excellent!

And you display imaginative ideas for the "elite" forum!
But please James, isn't it a bit much to wall it off ?

 I mean the President spoke  in his Inaugural speech wanting
to reduce "inequality'.  You know, we're all supposed to be alike,
make the same amount of money, have good homes, free education
and health care and no suffering. I mean in this climate James
your proposals could be construed as not working toward
the President's warm hearted goal.
Let us work together to
make for a more equal world. I'm willing to give some old coax cable to a new Ham.
What say you James?

I do look forward to continued exchanges with you James. Your fertile mind
is not what I would have expected from a Truck driver. And one of culture at that!

Warm regards and with all humility,
mike
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WN2C
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Posts: 443




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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 07:56:57 PM »

You know Mike, I have been looking for a good TS 520 but I have found they too are getting expensive.  I think I'll stick with what I got for now.  After all it works at the moment and like you (or was it someone else) said, you can't tell on the other end.  Besides, I already have one mortgage and don't need another for a radio.

Rick  wn2c
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WA4D
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Posts: 99


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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 08:07:36 PM »

Rick...

Understood. What does a 520 cost these days? $250? $300?

I bought one of the last 830's before they were discontinued (what mid 80's?) and didn't even open the box for a year. in my mind, it was  the classic Post KWM-II era radio.  Surely the biggest selling pair of 6146's xcvr of all time. My intent was to keep it for "all time".

Like a fool, I sold it for some reason. And I've regretted it ever since.

Please know, that in your hardship, and journey Rick, you may reach out to me for comfort at any time. And know that I will answer your on air call, whether you're on a 990 or an SB-101.

Warmest regards,
mike
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WN2C
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Posts: 443




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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 08:24:43 PM »

You know, I was looking at both of these radios (was actually looking for a 102) and also the Kenwood 599 Twins on flEaBay.  Couldn't believ the prices for any of this stuff.  I too regret selling the 520 and the 830 I once owned.  I appreciate your willingness to respond to my on air call from my rinky dink,  lowpower, shabby antenna station.

Oh and by the way, you need to look at the classifieds more often to really see the prices some folk are trying to get for some old stuff.

Rick  wn2c
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N0JI
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 09:31:56 PM »

I guess that I don't need a TS-990 since I have had the good sense to hang on to my TS-830s.

It does interest me that one would think that spending a mere $8000 to own the absolute top of the line equipment for your chosen hobby would somehow place you among the elites.  By that sad measure, the MOMA should be overrun by leather clad Harley riders, Saturday night dirt track stock car drivers, more than a few motocross racers, and plenty of overly tanned boating enthusiasts.  I guess that it would do no harm.  Somebody rooted in reality should bear witness that half the stuff in there bears a more than passing resemblance to a child's crafty scrawling displayed on the family refrigerator.
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G3RZP
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 01:52:58 AM »

WA4D said:

>Poor writing is the norm among hams.

That said, most Hams are not sophisticated enough to engage the TS-990 to it's potential.<

'It's' is an abreviation for 'it is', and is not a possesive apostrophe.

I don't have a problem working DX now, and I doubt very much if another rig would make any difference - you don't need a lot of money, but you do need operator competence. That's why I only need one country for DXCC Honor Roll #1.



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WA4D
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 06:57:33 AM »

Thank You Peter for your grammar correction.  Writing is hard.

Good luck on your final "catch"
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