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Author Topic: DX cop bad behavior  (Read 4453 times)
WX2S
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Posts: 689




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« on: February 17, 2013, 06:17:13 PM »

Heard a DX cop the other day send didiDAHdit didiDAH to someone (not me.). I don't mind being reminded if I forget to turn split mode on, but this is crossing the line. How often do you suppose it happens?

73,
- WX2S.
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73, - Steve WX2S.
I subscribe to the DX Code of Conduct. http://dx-code.org/
KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 07:01:11 PM »

Unfortunately, quite a bit!  I have heard the so called "cops" send that repeatedly for minutes on end.  I guess it makes them feel important to act so badly!

Take a listen to ANY pileup for a DXpedition, you will hear all sorts of nasty things.

73 de Jim - KE8G
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1236




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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2013, 09:12:52 AM »

I think some of the "kilocycle cops" really think they're helping (they're NOT) and others just like being a nuisance.  Either way, one single "UP" is OK, but anything more than that is jamming, IMO.

There was some wet end last year in a phone simplex pileup who kept yelling on the DX frequency, "Watch the band edges, American hams!  Watch those band edges!"  He never ID'd but he sounded like an American.  It's a good thing for him we haven't figured out how to physically harm people via ham radio yet. 
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KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2013, 09:53:23 AM »

I think some of the "kilocycle cops" really think they're helping (they're NOT) and others just like being a nuisance.  Either way, one single "UP" is OK, but anything more than that is jamming, IMO.

There was some wet end last year in a phone simplex pileup who kept yelling on the DX frequency, "Watch the band edges, American hams!  Watch those band edges!"  He never ID'd but he sounded like an American.  It's a good thing for him we haven't figured out how to physically harm people via ham radio yet. 

Well, I don't really want to hurt the person, but wouldn't it be nice if they received a direct lightening hit and their equipment is totally destroyed?  And any new equipment would receive the same treatment, so they could never again get on the air!!!

73 de Jim - KE8G
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K3NRX
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Posts: 1974


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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 10:20:06 AM »

Welcome to DXing!..... Roll Eyes.... Embarrassed....

V
KA3NRX
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KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 10:39:06 AM »

Welcome to DXing!..... Roll Eyes.... Embarrassed....

V
KA3NRX

Yep, it's been the same for the past 33 years that i know of!!
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NU4B
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Posts: 2163




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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 10:58:05 AM »

A "cop" by definition is bad behavior.
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NU1O
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Posts: 2606




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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 11:44:47 AM »

KE8G is right. We have no doubt had this problem since split was first used but how can somebody be so stupid as to think an expedition would be working simplex?  I realize frequently somebody just hits the wrong button, but after one or two calls they usually switch VFOs on their own.  How do we explain all the people who believe the DX station is actually working simplex?   

73,

Chris/NU1O
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KE8G
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Posts: 151




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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 02:02:10 PM »

Chris/NU1O,

You have posed the $64K question.  I have always wondered that myself, as on a personal level & with friends in my DX club, we all have a very good idea of upcoming DXpeditions and what bands/frequencies they will be operating.  A couple minutes of surfing the DX websites and a person has a lot of information.

Now, for the person who accidentally transmits on freq, that happens.  I know sometimes in the heat of the chase, even as careful as I try to be, I have made that mistake, .  It does happen & that's part of life.  I am REMINDED by our friends to go up, and the problem is solved.

I wonder if there is some way the spotting clusters can make an announcement, along with the spotted station, to remember to work split?  We see all sorts of notes thanking the station for an ATNO, new band, mode, etc.  Maybe a default "split" message could appear, as 99.9% of DXpeditions, are always working split.  I am willing to bet, that the vast majority of people chasing a station got the initial spot via a cluster, as that's the way it is done today; just plain easier rather than listening on the bands.

Does any one else have any ideas that might help with the problem?

73 de Jim - KE8G
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N3QE
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Posts: 2093




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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 03:12:27 PM »

I wonder if there is some way the spotting clusters can make an announcement, along with the spotted station, to remember to work split?  We see all sorts of notes thanking the station for an ATNO, new band, mode, etc.  Maybe a default "split" message could appear, as 99.9% of DXpeditions, are always working split.  I am willing to bet, that the vast majority of people chasing a station got the initial spot via a cluster, as that's the way it is done today; just plain easier rather than listening on the bands.

I think there is some support for this already in the logging program I use. If I click on a spot that says "UP 2" or "QSX 14027.5" in N1MM, it will automatically set my radio to the split in the spot. Of course I rarely want to be exactly on that split, but it's a useful start.

The above works for some spots made by humans or generated by humans using logging programs. For skimmer spots... I could imagine that if it saw "UP" or "UP2" after the CQ, the skimmer-to-spot filters could make a spot with the announced or a default split. I don't think this is existing functionality but I could imagine it.

It might be too much to expect the skimmer-to-spot filter know what is "rare and must be working split" vs "not rare and unlikely to be working split". Sure, much of the rare DX you and I want to work will be working split, but how is a computer program to know "rare" (probably 0.1% total of skimmer spots) calls from the vast sea of "not rare and not working split" calls. And I've often been surprised how, on the low bands, the rare DX is often not working split (or is listening just a tiny bit off their CQ frequency).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 03:16:01 PM by N3QE » Logged
WS3N
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Posts: 649




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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 03:21:42 PM »

I wonder if there is some way the spotting clusters can make an announcement, along with the spotted station, to remember to work split?  We see all sorts of notes thanking the station for an ATNO, new band, mode, etc.  Maybe a default "split" message could appear, as 99.9% of DXpeditions, are always working split.  I am willing to bet, that the vast majority of people chasing a station got the initial spot via a cluster, as that's the way it is done today; just plain easier rather than listening on the bands.

I think there is some support for this already in the logging program I use. If I click on a spot that says "UP 2" or "QSX 14027.5" in N1MM, it will automatically set my radio to the split in the spot. Of course I rarely want to be exactly on that split, but it's a useful start.

The above works for some spots made by humans or generated by humans using logging programs. For skimmer spots... I could imagine that if it saw "UP" or "UP2" after the CQ, the skimmer-to-spot filters could make a spot with the announced or a default split. I don't think this is existing functionality but I could imagine it.

It might be too much to expect the skimmer-to-spot filter know what is "rare and must be working split" vs "not rare and unlikely to be working split". Sure, much of the rare DX you and I want to work will be working split, but how is a computer program to know "rare" (probably 0.1% total of skimmer spots) calls from the vast sea of "not rare and not working split" calls.

DXLab works this way. I believe it also generates a spot with the split that was used, although I never really checked and I don't spot much. Maybe Dave or another user could comment.


Now, for the person who accidentally transmits on freq, that happens.  I know sometimes in the heat of the chase, even as careful as I try to be, I have made that mistake, .  It does happen & that's part of life.  I am REMINDED by our friends to go up, and the problem is solved.

Suppose we all make that mistake once every hundred times. Fairly infrequently for the individual, but if there are a hundred callers trying to get through we can expect it to happen in every pile up. And that's just an honest mistake by a good operator. It doesn't count the clueless.

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AC4RD
Member

Posts: 1236




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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 03:45:03 PM »

Welcome to DXing!..... Roll Eyes.... Embarrassed....
Yep, it's been the same for the past 33 years that i know of!!

This is one reason I don't work much phone these days.  The cops and kooks are fewer on CW, and even fewer yet on RTTY.  I quit playing with the radios for over a year, a few years ago, mostly because I was working a lot of phone at the time and I was disgusted at behavior in the phone pileups.

Some other people were talking about spotting clusters and DXing.  Just MHO, but I've got 100 watts and mostly wire antennas; if some good DX has been spotted on the cluster, my chances of working him are MUCH less than if I catch him BEFORE he's been spotted.  I think it's better to listen carefully to bands that sound quiet, and see what you can find yourself.  It takes more time and effort, but it's much more fun to work someone you heard, than someone you saw spotted. Smiley  I worked the TO4E group on PSK because one of them called someone in French Polynesia that I was ALSO trying to work.  Smiley
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KE8G
Member

Posts: 151




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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 03:46:56 PM »

I wonder if there is some way the spotting clusters can make an announcement, along with the spotted station, to remember to work split?  We see all sorts of notes thanking the station for an ATNO, new band, mode, etc.  Maybe a default "split" message could appear, as 99.9% of DXpeditions, are always working split.  I am willing to bet, that the vast majority of people chasing a station got the initial spot via a cluster, as that's the way it is done today; just plain easier rather than listening on the bands.

I think there is some support for this already in the logging program I use. If I click on a spot that says "UP 2" or "QSX 14027.5" in N1MM, it will automatically set my radio to the split in the spot. Of course I rarely want to be exactly on that split, but it's a useful start.

The above works for some spots made by humans or generated by humans using logging programs. For skimmer spots... I could imagine that if it saw "UP" or "UP2" after the CQ, the skimmer-to-spot filters could make a spot with the announced or a default split. I don't think this is existing functionality but I could imagine it.

It might be too much to expect the skimmer-to-spot filter know what is "rare and must be working split" vs "not rare and unlikely to be working split". Sure, much of the rare DX you and I want to work will be working split, but how is a computer program to know "rare" (probably 0.1% total of skimmer spots) calls from the vast sea of "not rare and not working split" calls.

DXLab works this way. I believe it also generates a spot with the split that was used, although I never really checked and I don't spot much. Maybe Dave or another user could comment.


Now, for the person who accidentally transmits on freq, that happens.  I know sometimes in the heat of the chase, even as careful as I try to be, I have made that mistake, .  It does happen & that's part of life.  I am REMINDED by our friends to go up, and the problem is solved.

Suppose we all make that mistake once every hundred times. Fairly infrequently for the individual, but if there are a hundred callers trying to get through we can expect it to happen in every pile up. And that's just an honest mistake by a good operator. It doesn't count the clueless.



Yes, both N1MM & SpotCollector have that ability, but I was thinking of the Web type spots; such as, DX Summit or DX Watch, which might be used more than the above mentioned spotting software.  Maybe a default message something like, "there's a good chance this DX station is working split."  It would not need to give a specific number for the split or whether it is up/down, something just for a station to consider the possibility.

I agree if a very small percentage makes a mistake, it still leads to QRM, but that is not preventable, it's going to happen no matter how careful people are.  I was referring to those that don't consider operating split as the SOP, a message such as above might enlighten them.

As long as there is Dxing, there will always be QRM; whether accidental, uninformed, or on purpose.  It's the nature of the game.

73 de Jim - KE8G
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W9KDX
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Posts: 770




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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 04:43:24 PM »

..... but how can somebody be so stupid as to think an expedition would be working simplex?  ........   

73,

Chris/NU1O

Actually, it is quite easy.  A new ham who is not using a computer and is unaware of just what a DXpedition is could easily stumble across a station calling CQ who forgets from time to time to mention that they are listening up.

I spent a lot of time reading here and elsewhere and also digging around on the web to find out what spotting and DXpeditions were as well as learning what "up" means.  I happen to saturate myself in anything I am interested in but I could easily see how someone who is less enthusiastic could be totally unaware that some CQ calling is "special".  My own first few DXpedition QSLs were accidental; I was not looking for them, just listening.  It takes a while to understand that when you see the pile up, you have to go down a few to see who is causing all the fuss.
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Sam
W9KDX
AF3Y
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Posts: 3700




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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 04:47:54 PM »

KE8G is right. We have no doubt had this problem since split was first used but how can somebody be so stupid as to think an expedition would be working simplex? .  How do we explain all the people who believe the DX station is actually working simplex? 
73,
Chris/NU1O

Chris, I asked this exact question months ago, and got a couple replies that I should not expect ops to know the DX is working split until he sends UP.

Maybe those hams were new at the time and have figured it out by now.

73, Gene AF3Y
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