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Author Topic: Logs, QSL cards, and nets  (Read 4412 times)
WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« on: February 21, 2013, 03:43:02 PM »

I am just starting my HF and just got my ARRL log book (I want to do paper for now, not computer or web based). My first ever contact was joining a net, more or less. I talked to two people on the net and got their information. How do I log the net? Two separate contacts, one for each person I talked to on the net? (there were more than two on the net but I talked directly to two people, and then to the net as a whole).

Next, a related question, can I send those two specific people QSL cards and request they send me one? Or is that bad form since it was a net?

Thanks!

Allan
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W5CPT
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Posts: 556




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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 03:56:46 PM »

I am just starting my HF and just got my ARRL log book (I want to do paper for now, not computer or web based).

I would advise against this. At some point you will want to do an electronic log and inputting all your contacts can be a daunting task.  I suggest you get a simple logging program, and use it.  Almost all logging programs have the ability to output a ADIF file which is pretty standard among logging programs.  So when you decide which other program you want to use you can easily output your log from one program and input into the other.


My first ever contact was joining a net, more or less. I talked to two people on the net and got their information. How do I log the net? Two separate contacts, one for each person I talked to on the net? (there were more than two on the net but I talked directly to two people, and then to the net as a whole).

You would log them as two separate contacts. 

Next, a related question, can I send those two specific people QSL cards and request they send me one? Or is that bad form since it was a net?

As to whether or not they will reply to a QSL card depends on the operators themselves and what kind of net it was.  The Century Club net is specifically for making contacts and exchanging QSL cards. They even have their own card bureau for their specific CC net awards.  Most hams will respond to a request for a card.  There is usually a space on the card you send that lets you choose between "Thanks for your card." and "Please send a card."  It is often just "QSL - Thnx - Plse" or something similar.  http://www.cheapqsls.com/ is a good outfit to get your first cards.

Clint - W5CPT -
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WD1R
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 04:09:11 PM »

W5CPT: Thank you very much for your reply!

As for an electronic log, I understand what you are saying but I deal with technology all day every day so when I get home I like to mix in as much old school as I can (I say this while typing on one of six computers in this room, including a full 2008R2 server, not including tablets, Kindles, smartphones, etc). Since the log is not required, and it is just for me, I do not want an electronic log, I want a paper log, so that kind of settles that. In fact, the log may get filled out with a 1940s Parker Vacumatic fountain pen!

I already have my cards coming, I was just worried that it might be improper to ask for a QSL card from someone on a net. Now that you have cleared that up I will send them one. I fully understand it is up to them to send one to me but I plan on sending the first one with a letter explaining it is my first ever contact, include a couple of green stamps, and ask politely for him to send me one. Hopefully he will pitty the newbie and send me one :-)

Thanks again!

Allan
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G3RZP
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 02:47:47 AM »

I started with apaper log 50 years ago this year. I have lost it, and only have paper logs back to 1971 now, and I'm too old and too inactive and don't type fast enough to make using a computer worthwhile.

A bit like still using (or being able to use) a slide rule  - strangely enough, they still work when the power is out and the computer and calculator batteries are empty!
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W1JKA
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 05:36:30 AM »

   No use for computerized logging here either.Paper log info easily looked up just by going down the first name column after initial contact,I work a lot of same stations frequently so remember most. I am not heavy into contest so no problem there.Since I only participate in one net most days, I see no need to bother logging it since it's the same time/freq.and mostly the same bunch of guys.As others have said,if you desire a QSL card from net ops or otherwise just send one out.When I initiate a QSL card I never check the please reply box,I prefer to leave it up to the receivers discretion to send me his.I am not into contest or wall paper so have no use for E-QSL,LOW or Bureaus, just fun casual ragchews.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 05:42:22 AM »

I am just starting my HF and just got my ARRL log book (I want to do paper for now, not computer or web based). My first ever contact was joining a net, more or less. I talked to two people on the net and got their information. How do I log the net? Two separate contacts, one for each person I talked to on the net? (there were more than two on the net but I talked directly to two people, and then to the net as a whole).

Next, a related question, can I send those two specific people QSL cards and request they send me one? Or is that bad form since it was a net?

Thanks!

Allan

Hi,

I would not fail to use a computer...  At some point you will want all of your contacts in a computer version of a log...  If you hand write them now, you will hand type them later...  It is easy to get several thousand contacts in a paper log...  Then you never will put them in the computer...  Think scaleability! 

I would log each contact separate, and add a short note to my COMPUTER log that it was a net, and which net... 

Not a bad idea at all for you to send QSL's...  Let the first person you spoke to know that he/she was your first contact!!  I ALWAYS like those QSO's and QSL cards, and ALWAYS reply to them with more information than I normally would. 

BTW:  Congratulations on becoming a Ham!
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KB3TXH
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Posts: 44




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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 05:51:35 AM »

Allan, welcome to HF. I have only been a ham for three years, so I am probably not qualified to advise anyone, but I DO have an opinion.
My opinion is..It's OK to use a paper log. Maybe even preferable to some folks. It is to me anyway.

 I tried two different logging programs, and found out that I just did not like using them. My goal was to keep records, but also to let me know when I was working someone who I had worked before.
  Then I realized that it didn't matter if I had worked them before, because I still wanted to talk to them.

As for QSL cards, I like to receive them, so I usually send them to new contacts, and new contacts usually send one back.
Like you, I would have sent  cards to the persons you spoke with, and hoped for a reply.
If a reply was really important to me, I would send a SASE.

Old school is good. I use a paper log, straight key, keep paper notebooks of conversations, and would operate in a darkened room by the glow of tube sets if I could maintain them....Jim
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NK7Z
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 05:59:35 AM »

I tried two different logging programs, and found out that I just did not like using them.
Did you try N3FJP's ACLog?  If not you might consider it...  If you are interested, I have a review of it at:
http://nk7z.net/review-of-amateur-contact-log-3-0/
That covers my likes/dislikes about it...

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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 07:55:43 AM »

Thanks for all the replies!!

I do find it interesting that some people seem to really push the software logging, even to someone who clearly stated they do not want to use a computer for logging. Strange. One of my duties at my job is writing and maintaining SQL databases, so it would be easy enough for me to write my own logging program, one that would do anything and everything I ever wanted a logging program to do, exactly the way I wanted it done. The problem is, I want a PAPER LOG BOOK. :-)  Seems to me like someone suggesting a great 2m radio to someone who wants to work 40meters, LOL!

Allan
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AC4RD
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Posts: 1236




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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 09:11:02 AM »

As for an electronic log, I understand what you are saying but I deal with technology all day every day so when I get home I like to mix in as much old school as I can

Allan, I am with you on this one.  I use an Access database for recordkeeping, QSLing, tracking progress to awards, and such.  But my actual log is a paper notebook and a pen.  I transfer the data every few days to the database.  I sit at a PC 9 hours a day as it is, and I've got a half-dozen PCs at home I use for various things.  The only thing I use a PC for when I'm operating on HF is to send RTTY and PSK--I've found I just can't whistle fast enough to do them manually.   ;-)

BTW, if I want a QSL from another American ham, I send him mine with a SASE.  Not everybody wants to QSL every QSO these days--even I don't.  So I try to make it easy and inexpensive for the other guy, on the rare occasions I want someone's card.   (And anybody who wants MY card can just tell me by email, I'll be delighted to send one, no SASE needed.)

It sounds like you're starting to have a world of fun on HF, Allan--hope to work you sometime!
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N6AJR
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 09:26:51 AM »

I second the N3FJP logger. you can try it for  30 contacts for free, and it is only like 10 bucks if you like it or 39 bucks for the entire set of all logs, and free updates for ever. It took me several months to type in all my old paper logs  to  electronic. you can get some programs to load the calls with out typing, (telnet) and use of logbook of the world, and such. It is hand to have a logging program.  Another free one is DXLabs. good luck have fun
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W1JKA
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 10:10:42 AM »

  Looks like N6AJR skipped your reply #8. Wink
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KB3FEI
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 11:49:07 AM »

Another option which incorporates both--sign up for an eqsl account but do not enter any of your paper-logged contacts. Just reply to those contacts which the other ham has uploaded. You will get notice that the contact is in your inbox, then, checking your paper log, verify as appropriate. Also with LOTW, just put in the contacts you think you will need for awards, if you collect them. In neither case is a computer log needed. I know it is selfish (one would not always call me altruistic) but it works. Dale, kb3fei.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 12:52:32 PM »

Thanks for all the replies!!

I do find it interesting that some people seem to really push the software logging, even to someone who clearly stated they do not want to use a computer for logging. Strange. One of my duties at my job is writing and maintaining SQL databases, so it would be easy enough for me to write my own logging program, one that would do anything and everything I ever wanted a logging program to do, exactly the way I wanted it done. The problem is, I want a PAPER LOG BOOK. :-)  Seems to me like someone suggesting a great 2m radio to someone who wants to work 40meters, LOL!


Hi,

Actually it is the current users attempting to assist a new person to ham radio... Your status as a new operator triggers everyone into help mode...

It is nothing like suggesting a 2 meter rig for a 40 meter rig...  More like suggesting that you use the CW Filters for CW, as opposed to the SSB filters for CW...

Given your background, (programming etc), you clearly know what you want, and don't care about using a computer...  Too bad, you forgot to mention your fellow hams that might want QSL cards via LoTW, or eQSL in your programming descriptions, remember, you will also need to write something to deal with tQSL, LoTW, and eQSL...  That is unless you intend on putting in every card by hand, you will be not addressing the requests of other hams you work, or just ignoring the electronic requests you WILL get.

I suspect that over time this will change as you get QSL requests from others, who want qsl cards via LoTW or eQSL...  However, if you chose to not QSL your new friends via eQSL, or LoTW, that is your choice... 

I suspect everyone here was trying to help you not make a bad decision with regards to logging...  It is very impolite to LOL at them for making suggestions in response to your request...  If you WANT A PAPER LOG BOOK, print one...  Sorry to sound harsh, but when I try and help someone, after they ask, and someone LOL's it, even if it contradicts what they say, I get testy...  Most polite folks say thanks for help, even if they don't use it...

In any case, you should reconsider your decision to skip computer logging...  Many of your contacts WILL want electronic QSL cards...  Have fun and enjoy the hobby...
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
WD1R
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 02:53:07 PM »

Dave NK7Z,

I apologize if I ruffled your feathers but please try to see it from my point of view. I started off being explicit that I did not want to use computer logging. Then someone basically tells me that is a mistake. I thank them for their opinion and politely explain in great detail why I do not want a computer logging program. Then someone else comes in and tries to convince me again to use a computer logging program. I try to explain yet again that I do not want a computer logging program, this time a little more colorfully. Again, someone comes in telling me why I should use a computer logging program.

So Dave, would you please be kind enough to tell me how exactly I can explain politely and respectfully that I have absolutely no interest in a computer logging program regardless of the consequences?

So it is impolite for me to LOL at the idea of suggesting a 2m radio for someone who wants to work 40m (that is where the LOL was after all), but it is OK for you to repeatedly pressure me into using something I have repeatedly stated I do not want to do? Telling me my decision is a "bad decision" because you disagree with it?

I appreciate your point of view, I really do. I appreciate all the help and suggestions I get. But please, lay off the computer logging!

Allan
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