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Author Topic: Looks like I will be QRT for a week or so  (Read 4902 times)
KE8G
Member

Posts: 151




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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2013, 09:11:54 AM »

Good luck, Jon. I know the feeling when I sent my Pro3 for repair.

I'll probably get a K3 sooner or later. My only concern is how it performs on SSB with opinions being all over the place. Some say it's good, some say the rig is good for CW only...

Hi Ryan/N2RJ,
Please do not take this as a personal slam!  It is not meant to be such.

Yes, there are certainly opinions all over about the K3 & SSB.  Food for thought though to all reading this, how many DXpeditions are using K3s?  Not only on CW, but also SSB!  From everything I am reading, if they are set up correctly, the K3 holds its own on SSB.

I've had my K3s now for a few years, granted never on SSB, as I am strictly a CW guy, and couldn't ask for a better radio.  I've been in the hobby for 30+ years and owned Drakes, Kenwoods, & Icoms, the K3 outshines them all.  Several members in my radio club, Northern Ohio DX Association (NODXA), own K3s and are very active in DXing & contesting using both CW & SSB and swear by them.

As I said in the first paragraph, lots of opinions, and this is mine.

73 de Jim - KE8G
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NI0C
Member

Posts: 2394




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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 09:22:38 AM »

NU1O wrote:
Quote
When it comes time to order a CW filter get the narrowest one they sell. I think it is 250 Hz and get the 8 pole filter.  You don't really have to load it with 5 filters as Elecraft would love you to do.

I operate about 98% CW.  I couldn't make up my mind about the CW filters, so I tried them all!  Right now I have the following filters installed: 2.7 KHz stock SSB filter, plus 700 Hz, 400 Hz, 250 Hz, and 200 Hz.  I also have a 500 Hz 5-pole filter that I don't use anymore.  I use the 400 Hz and 250 Hz most of the time for listening to the DX, and the 700 Hz filter for combing through the pileups with VFO "B." 

Another good source of info is the Elecraft Reflector.  It's fun to search the archives on a topic (such as CW filters) and see what others have to say.

73,
Chuck  NI0C
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W6GX
Member

Posts: 2484




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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2013, 09:28:43 AM »

I'm new to CW and I don't really know the difference between a roofing filter and DSP IF filter.  I have a 600hz roofing filter on my rig.  However I use the DSP IF filter and it works FB.  Is there a good reason to use a 600hz or 300hz roofing filter as opposed to DSP IF?  Assuming I'm working a dxpdition and not in a contest.  Thanks.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1477




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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2013, 09:34:14 AM »

I'm new to CW and I don't really know the difference between a roofing filter and DSP IF filter.  I have a 600hz roofing filter on my rig.  However I use the DSP IF filter and it works FB.  Is there a good reason to use a 600hz or 300hz roofing filter as opposed to DSP IF?  Assuming I'm working a dxpdition and not in a contest.  Thanks.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Mainly for contesting. I am addicted to 160m CW contests. Being able to make the S9+++ signal disappear and still being able to hear the S1 signal right next to it is important.
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W6GX
Member

Posts: 2484




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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2013, 09:37:33 AM »

I'm new to CW and I don't really know the difference between a roofing filter and DSP IF filter.  I have a 600hz roofing filter on my rig.  However I use the DSP IF filter and it works FB.  Is there a good reason to use a 600hz or 300hz roofing filter as opposed to DSP IF?  Assuming I'm working a dxpdition and not in a contest.  Thanks.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Mainly for contesting. I am addicted to 160m CW contests. Being able to make the S9+++ signal disappear and still being able to hear the S1 signal right next to it is important.

Ok.  Thanks.  So I take it the roofing filter has better filtering rejection than IF DSP.  Sometimes I use both, with the roofing filter at 600hz and IF DSP set to 200hz.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 2163




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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2013, 09:43:03 AM »

I'm new to CW and I don't really know the difference between a roofing filter and DSP IF filter.  I have a 600hz roofing filter on my rig.  However I use the DSP IF filter and it works FB.  Is there a good reason to use a 600hz or 300hz roofing filter as opposed to DSP IF?  Assuming I'm working a dxpdition and not in a contest.  Thanks.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Mainly for contesting. I am addicted to 160m CW contests. Being able to make the S9+++ signal disappear and still being able to hear the S1 signal right next to it is important.

That said... the K3 DSP filter is really really good. Almost as good as Ten-Tec Eagle DSP filter.

Doesn't mean that extra crystal filters are never needed, but you can probably get away with just one, and don't need to load up the radio with every crystal filter they sell. Some will tell you to get the tightest one, but I personally prefer the 600Hz one for contesting. 300 Hz would be too narrow when running and many callers come back +/- a few hundred Hz.

Working a DXpedition, I'm not sure any DSP or crystal filter will help much when the LIDS and DX COPS are zero-beating the DX.
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K4JK
Member

Posts: 293




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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2013, 09:53:24 AM »


Ok.  Thanks.  So I take it the roofing filter has better filtering rejection than IF DSP.  Sometimes I use both, with the roofing filter at 600hz and IF DSP set to 200hz.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
The roofing filter is a "physical" filter that sits at the first IF and protects the rest of the receiver stages from signals outside the range of the filter. i.e., it only lets a certain bandwidth of signals into the rest of the receiver.

So if you have a 2.7 khz roofing filter it lets 2.7 khz of signals into the later receiver stages. From there, your DSP will handle additional filtering. For casual operating this roofing filter will work FB.

If you are big into CW contesting, you may want a tighter roofing filter to protect the later stages of the receiver from strong adjacent signals. As a simplified example, if you only have a 2.7 khz filter and are operating on a frequency where there is a very strong signal say, 700 hz up the roofing filter is allowing that signal to enter the later stages of your receiver and desensitize it. If you have a 250hz roofing filter you can block that adjacent signal completely and get normal sensitivity on your desired operating frequency.

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ex W4HFK
W6GX
Member

Posts: 2484




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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2013, 10:05:10 AM »


Ok.  Thanks.  So I take it the roofing filter has better filtering rejection than IF DSP.  Sometimes I use both, with the roofing filter at 600hz and IF DSP set to 200hz.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
The roofing filter is a "physical" filter that sits at the first IF and protects the rest of the receiver stages from signals outside the range of the filter. i.e., it only lets a certain bandwidth of signals into the rest of the receiver.

So if you have a 2.7 khz roofing filter it lets 2.7 khz of signals into the later receiver stages. From there, your DSP will handle additional filtering. For casual operating this roofing filter will work FB.

If you are big into CW contesting, you may want a tighter roofing filter to protect the later stages of the receiver from strong adjacent signals. As a simplified example, if you only have a 2.7 khz filter and are operating on a frequency where there is a very strong signal say, 700 hz up the roofing filter is allowing that signal to enter the later stages of your receiver and desensitize it. If you have a 250hz roofing filter you can block that adjacent signal completely and get normal sensitivity on your desired operating frequency.

Thank you for the excellent explanation.  I just want to make a comment on the roofing filter.  There's a contest stations (K0RF) that is about 8.4 miles from as the crow flies.  When he's on the radio my receiver gets overloaded despite the 3khz roofing filter I have.  The overloading occurs as far as 20khz away from his signal.  So the roofing filter in my rig could possibly block a S9+20 signal but not a S9+60 signal.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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NI0C
Member

Posts: 2394




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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2013, 10:05:39 AM »

NU1O wrote:
Quote
I never have used a Macro like Chuck.

I use the following macro for CW split operations. This is a toggleable Macro, restoring the K3 to simplex with the second execution.  Thanks to a ham in the Czech Republic whose call I have forgotten for this macro.
 
"CW SPLT:"
XT0;SWT13;UPB4;SWT11;BW0070;SWT11;SWH13;

This puts the K3 in Split mode with VFO B up 1.0 KHz, and sets bandwidth to 700 Hz for VFO B.
(Change the command BW0070 to BW0080 for 800 Hz bandwidth, for instance).    


I wrote the following Macro's for using APF (CW Audio Peak Filter):

"APF ON"  Turns on APF, puts VFO in Fine tune mode (1 Hz resolution):
IS 9999;SWH29;RT1;SWT53;RT0;RT1;SWT49;LK0;

"APF DN"  Turns on APF, puts VFO in Fine, turns on RIT and tunes down 20 Hz:
IS 9999;SWH29;RT1;SWT53;RT0;RT1;RD;RD;SWT49;LK0;

"APF UP"  Turns on APF, puts VFO in Fine, turns on RIT and tunes up 20 Hz:
IS 9999;SWH29;RT1;SWT53;RT0;RT1;RU;RU;SWT49;LK0;

"APF CLR"  Turns APF and RIT off, restores tuning resolution to 10 Hz:
SWH29;SWT49;SWT53;RT0;IS 9999;

Note: with APF DN and APF UP, the purpose of shifting the tuning frequency 20 Hz is to ensure the desired signal peaks at a pitch 20 Hz away from the "ring" frequency of the APF.  You will have to make some careful adjustments of the APF shift control and the VFO frequency in order to peak the signal with these versions.  

Any of these Macros are easily assigned to memory keys PF1, PF2, M1-M4 (T/H).

73,
Chuck  NI0C


  





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WX2S
Member

Posts: 707




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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2013, 10:13:27 AM »

Welcome to K3-hood, Jon! What options did you decide on?

73,
- WX2S
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73, - Steve WX2S.
I subscribe to the DX Code of Conduct. http://dx-code.org/
N2RJ
Member

Posts: 1178




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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2013, 10:15:51 AM »

Good luck, Jon. I know the feeling when I sent my Pro3 for repair.

I'll probably get a K3 sooner or later. My only concern is how it performs on SSB with opinions being all over the place. Some say it's good, some say the rig is good for CW only...

Hi Ryan/N2RJ,
Please do not take this as a personal slam!  It is not meant to be such.

Yes, there are certainly opinions all over about the K3 & SSB.  Food for thought though to all reading this, how many DXpeditions are using K3s?  Not only on CW, but also SSB!  From everything I am reading, if they are set up correctly, the K3 holds its own on SSB.

I've had my K3s now for a few years, granted never on SSB, as I am strictly a CW guy, and couldn't ask for a better radio.  I've been in the hobby for 30+ years and owned Drakes, Kenwoods, & Icoms, the K3 outshines them all.  Several members in my radio club, Northern Ohio DX Association (NODXA), own K3s and are very active in DXing & contesting using both CW & SSB and swear by them.

As I said in the first paragraph, lots of opinions, and this is mine.

73 de Jim - KE8G

Well, to be honest do you think they want a separate rig for CW and SSB? I have seen a good bit of DXpedition videos and they already carry a lot of gear but space is tight. So the fact that DXpeditions use them doesn't say much.

But I do think that they do good on SSB receive. SSB transmit is where I've heard skepticism and the audio quality is not what some people like. As for me, I don't really care for hi fi audio but I do want audio to get me through the pileup AND hold a run freq during a contest.

There may be a K3 in my shack in the future. How far away into the future remains to be seen.
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WX2S
Member

Posts: 707




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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 10:17:01 AM »

CW is my primary mode. My 2000D was a fine SSB mode.  If it takes some tweaking on SSB to have a really nice signal I am ok with it. The manual says it has a 6 band EQ and I am sure it will be fine once that gets dialed in. I think most DXpeditions use the radio without tweaking the audio EQ. And even if they did, the levels would only be set for one persons voice thus making it sound crappy for everyone else.
You have to set the transmit EQ up for your mike. It's flat by default, so if you don't, you'll likely get something far below optimal if you have less than the perfect mike.

- WX2S
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73, - Steve WX2S.
I subscribe to the DX Code of Conduct. http://dx-code.org/
N2RJ
Member

Posts: 1178




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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2013, 10:30:32 AM »

The other thing I don't like is that the front of the rig looks cheap... Not that it says anything about the performance but sometimes looks can spoil a perfectly good product.
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N2RJ
Member

Posts: 1178




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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2013, 10:39:25 AM »

Good luck, Jon. I know the feeling when I sent my Pro3 for repair.

I'll probably get a K3 sooner or later. My only concern is how it performs on SSB with opinions being all over the place. Some say it's good, some say the rig is good for CW only...

CW is my primary mode. My 2000D was a fine SSB mode.  If it takes some tweaking on SSB to have a really nice signal I am ok with it. The manual says it has a 6 band EQ and I am sure it will be fine once that gets dialed in. I think most DXpeditions use the radio without tweaking the audio EQ. And even if they did, the levels would only be set for one persons voice thus making it sound crappy for everyone else.

I guess I'll know soon enough.

I do both CW and SSB (and PSK31).

The EQ is a plus. Looking forward to your report.
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AD9DX
Member

Posts: 1477




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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2013, 11:10:23 AM »

Welcome to K3-hood, Jon! What options did you decide on?

73,
- WX2S


Options to this point are the 100w PA the 8 pole standard roofing filter and the internal antenna tuner.

Ideally there would be a lot more options, but that is what I can afford at the moment.

Next up would be another CW filter. I should be able to swing that in a few weeks.

From what I have heard the subRX is a PITA to install, so that should be one if the last options to get.
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EX, KC9TRM, KB9IRZ
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