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Author Topic: I live in a valley  (Read 3197 times)
KD8UXE
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Posts: 23




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« on: March 15, 2013, 06:23:30 AM »

My problem is what kind of antenna's will I need for 2 meter to 160 meter the most I can get is about 70 feet. I am going to build my own antenna's so I can tune them my self. I need a good starting point for this if anyone can help.here is my lat and my long if it will help.

lat.(37° 26' 7'' N)

long.(81° 6' 27'' W)


                                                                                                                            Thanks,greg
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retired United States Army Signal Corps 25c
N8BOA
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Posts: 97




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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 07:38:41 AM »

You are in a valley aren't you
Looks like a good hill to the north but maybe far enough for hf not to come into play
   2 m will be an issue
Hill to the South East
  10m-20m to the south east so so should be good for the Caribbean though   ..--..
40 -160
   Now we are getting into NVIS stuff so FL all SE state side ok  should be good for the Caribbean though
 Might as well stay away from verticals the would still talk but It is hard to beat a good O dipole
Remember all antennas are a compromise i.e. no such thing as a perfect antenna
Sean
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KD8UXE
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Posts: 23




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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 08:25:05 AM »

Yes this is my problem I am going for my general test next month and I need to figure out the best way to get my antenna's up I am thinking 80 meters and down, but where i'm at I can get about 80 feet high.So I know I have my
work cut out for me.



                                                                                                              Thank's for all the help,Greg
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retired United States Army Signal Corps 25c
W5DXP
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Posts: 3630


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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 09:48:42 AM »

So I know I have my work cut out for me.

Most hams worry needlessly about this problem, at least for HF operation. How far is it to the mountains? How high are the mountains? Divide how high they are by how far away they are and take the arctan of that figure. That's the angle one needs to overcome and it is usually pretty small compared to the take-off-angle of most  antennas. My advice is not to worry about such, just put up your HF antenna, and see how it works.

Of course, the line-of-sight limitation for VHF and UHF is a completely different problem.
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73, Cecil, www.w5dxp.com
The purpose of an antenna tuner is to increase the current through the radiation resistance at the antenna to the maximum available magnitude resulting in a radiated power of I2(RRAD) from the antenna.
W0FM
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Posts: 2056




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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 11:11:53 AM »

Cecil is absolutely correct.  I built a new home in a valley 15 years ago.  I knew it was in a hole, but the choice to live there was mine.  Starting at my back yard and going east the ground rises about 250 feet in a mile.  I didn't worry about it long though because I figured I had only these options for HF:

1.  Move
2.  Find another hobby
3.  Rent a bulldozer and level that hill to meet my needs (about 900 acres)
4.  Put up the best antenna I can and quit worrying.

I chose #4.  In 15 years I have 249 DX entities confirmed with a dipole in my attic.  MOST of those contacts are in Europe, the Middle East and Africa, the exact direction of that hill I dreaded.  It came down to the takeoff angle of the antenna.  The hill was almost invisible to my dipole.

So, what are your options, Greg?  Probably pretty similar to mine and lots of other hams.  Just put something up (probably not a vertical) and have fun.  You can always tinker with new ideas while you are racking up contacts.  

73,

Terry, WØFM

« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 11:47:41 AM by W0FM » Logged
N7SMI
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Posts: 348




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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 11:40:08 AM »

VHF/UHF will pretty much be line of sight (plus a bit). You can't defy those laws of physics. For HF, as others have noted, don't worry too much about it unless you're gunning for #1 Honor Roll or something where you want every last dB possible to get over those mountains. My home is at 4600 feet and I have a 10000 foot mountain range just a few miles to the East of me - right in the direction of all the cool and hard-to-get DX (Europe, Africa, Middle East, etc.). I've still managed to work all over these regions with 100 watts and a terrible chunk of aluminum called a vertical and a modest beam.
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W0FM
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Posts: 2056




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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 11:48:34 AM »

Whoops, thought Cecil, typed Clint.  Brain freeze. 

Sorry Cecil.

Terry, WØFM
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N4HAL
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Posts: 53




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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »

I live in the mountains in a bowl. UHF & VHF work on rare occasion, but HF works quite well most of the time. Tried regular dipole antennas and later changed them to folded dipoles fed with ladder line for a significant gain in performance. Also have a 32' vertical that I switch to on occasion.
Get on the air you'll be amazed What you can do!

Bill
N4HAL
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AJ3O
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Posts: 124




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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 03:46:55 PM »

Only have three suggestions for you:

1. Find a friend close by and setup a remote station. Not cheap
2. Move to a better location. DEFINITELY NOT cheap
3. Just try and home brew your own antennas out of wire and have fun where you are. On the nice weekends, you can take your equipment and the knowledge you gained from making your own antennas to a higher place and have a blast. CHEAPEST

You will get out and the bands will surprise you.

73,

Joe / AJ3O
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W5DXP
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 06:33:03 PM »

Whoops, thought Cecil, typed Clint.

"Go ahead ... make my day!"Smiley
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73, Cecil, www.w5dxp.com
The purpose of an antenna tuner is to increase the current through the radiation resistance at the antenna to the maximum available magnitude resulting in a radiated power of I2(RRAD) from the antenna.
K0ZN
Member

Posts: 1553




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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »


If you can get your antennas up 60 to 80 ft. I would expect you will have VERY good results.....hill or not..... especially on the lower bands.
VHF can be a challenge, but up at those frequencies, if you want to make the expense and effort you can put up some large antennas that
may surprise you.

Biggest issue I see at your QTH is that you are worrying too much !!

73,  K0ZN
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WD4ELG
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Posts: 876




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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 07:48:06 PM »

You need to contact KY6R.  He has achieved honor roll on DX and he lives in a valley east of San Fran.  He has shared his experiences, which are very insightful.
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ONAIR
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Posts: 1744




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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 12:14:17 AM »

VHF and UHF will likely present a problem, although a beam antenna could help somewhat.
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AD6KA
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Posts: 2238




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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 12:02:20 PM »

Quote
Biggest issue I see at your QTH is that you are worrying too much !!

Agreed.
Just get on the air and have fun!  Grin

Do you know how many city hams (like me) who would give
their right arm
to be able to get their antennas up 70 feet?
You are lucky my friend, count your blessings.

GL ES 73, Ken  AD6KA
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 13353




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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 12:27:55 PM »

Quote from: ONAIR
VHF and UHF will likely present a problem, although a beam antenna could help somewhat.



You may also find that pointing a beam at the surrounding hills on VHF may produce some
reflections in useful directions, or knife-edge diffraction that allows you to make contacts
out of the valley.
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