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Author Topic: Moral implications of using flagpole antenna?  (Read 8369 times)
K9AIM
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Posts: 915




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« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2013, 07:26:08 PM »

Quote
everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

Well, I'm a US citizen and am turned off by this type of chanting as well.  I was particularly appalled by such chanting that occurred in the run up to the shameful 2003 invasion of Iraq. 

"How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy" -- Nietzsche

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein

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KY6R
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2013, 08:28:16 PM »

Quote
everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

Well, I'm a US citizen and am turned off by this type of chanting as well.  I was particularly appalled by such chanting that occurred in the run up to the shameful 2003 invasion of Iraq. 

I agree.
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NU1O
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2013, 09:51:58 PM »

Quote
everybody is chanting "USA", "USA", and waving the US flag. I think many from outside the US view it as too nationalistic.

It would be good if somebody from outside the US chimed in and gave their opinion so there was some balance.

Well, I'm a US citizen and am turned off by this type of chanting as well.  I was particularly appalled by such chanting that occurred in the run up to the shameful 2003 invasion of Iraq. 

Chuck,

You really did edit my message out of context and change it to suit your political views.  My message was specifically about chanting "USA", "USA" and waving the flag during the Olympics.  I didn't mention anything about the war with Iraq.

For the record, I was not one chanting my country's name over and over during the lead up to the war. Despite the fact I was in favor of removing Saddam Hussein from power I think war is far too serious to treat it like a sporting event.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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NI0C
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Posts: 2380




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« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2013, 07:20:49 AM »

NU1O wrote"
Quote
Chuck,

You really did edit my message out of context and change it to suit your political views.  My message was specifically about chanting "USA", "USA" and waving the flag during the Olympics.  I didn't mention anything about the war with Iraq.

For the record, I was not one chanting my country's name over and over during the lead up to the war. Despite the fact I was in favor of removing Saddam Hussein from power I think war is far too serious to treat it like a sporting event.

73,

Chris/NU1O

Chris, I did in fact edit your message and used the opportunity to send my political message.  I apologize for using your words in this way, and for extending them in ways that you did not intend.

73,
Chuck  Ni0C
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NU1O
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Posts: 2562




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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2013, 10:19:22 AM »

NU1O wrote"
Quote
Chuck,

You really did edit my message out of context and change it to suit your political views.  My message was specifically about chanting "USA", "USA" and waving the flag during the Olympics.  I didn't mention anything about the war with Iraq.

For the record, I was not one chanting my country's name over and over during the lead up to the war. Despite the fact I was in favor of removing Saddam Hussein from power I think war is far too serious to treat it like a sporting event.

73,

Chris/NU1O

Chris, I did in fact edit your message and used the opportunity to send my political message.  I apologize for using your words in this way, and for extending them in ways that you did not intend.

73,
Chuck  Ni0C

I thought you made a valid point about the chanting but since I don't agree with you about the war I thought it best I point out my complete text was not included

Happy Easter! I have some cooking to finish.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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W7ASA
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Posts: 204




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« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2013, 02:33:49 PM »

Long Answer:   The fact that many are not free to put up a very reasonable thing such as an antenna on their OWN property is shameful in an allegedly 'free country'. A basic tennent of American revolutionary thought is that 'Resistance to tyrany is obedience to God." . Therefore, I would suggest that since these community kommissars believe that your home is THEIR castle, erect the flagpole and put one of the many continental battle flags up the mast as well.  Something picturing a rattlesnake with 'Don't Tread On Me' sounds appropriate, or is that too much 1776 for the average American today?    

Short Answer:
It IS a flagpole and their own property - right? The fact that the flagpole is multi-purpose is good - and thrifty too!


>de Ray
W7ASA ..._ ._
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 02:46:34 PM by W7ASA » Logged
N4UM
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Posts: 440




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« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2013, 04:59:41 PM »

"Is anybody offended by the practice of disguising an Amateur Radio antenna as an American flag?" - NU1O

It doesn't bother me.  I use a flagpole as an antenna in my geriatric ghetto - even though flagpoles are prohibited.  Florida's "flagpole law" supercedes my HOA'a restrictive covenants.
However, I personally find the all-too-common practice of automobile dealerships erecting giant American flags to be highly offensive.

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NI0C
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Posts: 2380




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« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2013, 06:02:44 AM »

NU1O wrote:
Quote
I thought you made a valid point about the chanting but since I don't agree with you about the war I thought it best I point out my complete text was not included

Happy Easter! I have some cooking to finish.

Chris, I re-learned my lesson concerning commenting on divisive political topics in a ham radio forum.  Happy Easter to you and yours, also!

73,
Chuck  NI0C
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NU1O
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Posts: 2562




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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2013, 01:07:09 AM »

NU1O wrote:
Quote
I thought you made a valid point about the chanting but since I don't agree with you about the war I thought it best I point out my complete text was not included

Happy Easter! I have some cooking to finish.

Chris, I re-learned my lesson concerning commenting on divisive political topics in a ham radio forum.  Happy Easter to you and yours, also!

73,
Chuck  NI0C

Commenting on one's political views in these forums is something that doesn't really trouble me. I can count the times I've discussed politics over the radio on one hand so it's not a big issue here. However, since my quote was edited and it could give the appearance I was against removing Saddam Hussein from power I thought I'd point out my comment was edited   Actually, we agree about the chanting during the run up to the war but I was for removing Saddam Hussein from power and you haven't opined on that subject.

I had a very nice Easter. I ate way more than I should've but we only have a few holiday's a year where that happens so I'm not going to let it bother me.  I hope everybody enjoyed their Easter Sunday!

73,

Chris/NU1O


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N0JL
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« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2013, 08:14:25 AM »

The moral problem is the CC&R!
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NU1O
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Posts: 2562




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« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2013, 11:00:44 PM »

The moral problem is the CC&R!

When a CC&R is originally formed it is an an agreement by the property owners in the hope the restrictions will help maintain their property values.  As time goes on the restrictions transfer when the property is sold but at the time of the closing, or before if the ham is on his toes, the restrictions should be spelled out to the buyer by a competent attorney or real estate agent.

I don't think are many cases where the purchaser is not aware there is a CC&R and ignorance is not a very good excuse, especially by a ham who should be aware many developments have these covenants.  CC&R's are one of the most discussed topics in ham forums and ham magazines and any ham with an outdoor antenna should know a CC&R could shut their station down.

I still think the easiest way to avoid a CC&R is not to move into a property with a restriction against antennae. If the ham has no choice there are loads of articles on how to build a stealth antenna and many hams use an indoor antenna.

I strongly disagree that a voluntary agreement amongst like property owners in immoral.

73,

Chris/NU1O
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:07:59 PM by NU1O » Logged
NU4B
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Posts: 2143




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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2013, 08:25:00 AM »

The moral problem is the CC&R!

I still think the easiest way to avoid a CC&R is not to move into a property with a restriction against antennae. If the ham has no choice there are loads of articles on how to build a stealth antenna and many hams use an indoor antenna.


Exactly! I am a real estate agent and Chris is right - avoid these properties if you can. If you can't, plan ahead. Know before you sign how you are going to do your  stealth antenna. I rented a townhouse years ago and I was able to put my HF5B on the balcony and an HF2V  on my patio fence because the way the townhouse was built and the particular location on the unit. Both antennas were never seen from the road or any other unit. My unit was the "end of the road" so to speak - there was no reason to come around to my unit - other than to see me.

Other property owners - whether right or wrong  - may not see the beauty in our tower(s). Remember many people buy into these properties because they want the CCRs - they don't want to look at 20 cars in the driveway, an RV parked in the front yard, a mobile home next door, a rickety above ground pool etc.. So if you do end up in a CCR neighborhood be respectful, watch out for "Nosy Ned" and "Stuffy Sally", and PLAN AHEAD!

 - and if you need one, get a good RE buyer's agent that understands ham radio so you are not surprised after you move in.
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K8QV
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Posts: 50




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« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2013, 03:43:23 PM »

Hams who have such restrictions have agreed to abide by those restrictions. Still, most can't wait to sneak around and circumvent the rules. Sorry, those are just the facts. I think it makes hams look pretty sleazy and dishonest.
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K9AIM
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Posts: 915




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« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2013, 04:35:05 PM »

Hams who have such restrictions have agreed to abide by those restrictions. Still, most can't wait to sneak around and circumvent the rules. Sorry, those are just the facts. I think it makes hams look pretty sleazy and dishonest.

 Roll Eyes

what if this is a teen-ager or an elderly fellow or lady who has moved in with her children? they are sleazy if they put up a dual-use flag-pole to get around housing restrictions  Huh

It is amazing to me that we worship property value more than we worship a man's (or woman's) right to put up an antenna of some kind.  Saying a ham should not erect a dual-use flagpole to get on the air and as a way around a property restriction seems to me to miss the point entirely of what Jesus was pointing to when he asked if man was made for the sabbath or the sabbath made for man.  But then a lot of what Jesus meant seems to be missed by people -- especially the church goers who call themselves 'christians'. 

disclaimer: I do not attend church nor consider myself a christian.  73

 

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W2IRT
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« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2013, 07:08:10 PM »

I'm an atheist and don't give a right royal rat's rump about anything xtian (or any other faith for that matter). I'll do whatever I need to do to put as strong a signal into the aether as I possibly can. At the moment, that includes living somewhere without CC&Rs, but if I had no other choice for some reason (hint: I wouldn't allow myself to be put in such a predicament), I'd do anything I could, including flagpoles, loading up rain gutters, stealth verticals or dipoles in the attic--or bribing the neighbours to be quiet about it by one means or another.

I have zero problems with using a flag pole vertical. Shuts the neighbours up, pisses off the CC&R nazis and you get on the air whether they like it or not.
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