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Author Topic: How many of us are not using beams?  (Read 3731 times)
W6GX
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Posts: 2287




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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2013, 10:44:11 PM »

I once had a G5RV mounted very high in a flat-top configuration and it really played.  The key is the flat-top orientation.  The moment you start bending the legs the effectiveness goes way down.  Also keep in mind that a horizontally polarized antenna picks up an extra 5-5.5db of ground reflection gain AND 2.1db of broadside gain.  It takes a very vertical (i.e. lots of radials) to come close to a dipole mounted very high.  The problem with the dipole is that most are mounted as an inverted-V so in the real world the two antennas are fairly comparable.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Jonathan,

If you are comparing a true dipole to an inverted Vee don't you mean they Are Not  comparable?  Sorry, but you have me confused as to what you are comparing.

73,

Chris/NU1O

Sorry.  I can't type today.  I'm saying that a *classic* dipole is a very good antenna, much better than a vertical provided that the dipole is mounted high and in a flat-top orientation.  By definition a vertical has zero gain whereas a *classic* dipole has 2.1dbi broadside gain plus 5.5db of ground reflection gain.  However the problem is that most dipoles are mounted low and in an inverted-V orientation which make it not as good of an antenna as a *classic* dipole.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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NU1O
Member

Posts: 2562




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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2013, 10:56:13 PM »

Sorry.  I can't type today.  I'm saying that a *classic* dipole is a very good antenna, much better than a vertical provided that the dipole is mounted high and in a flat-top orientation.  By definition a vertical has zero gain whereas a *classic* dipole has 2.1dbi broadside gain plus 5.5db of ground reflection gain.  However the problem is that most dipoles are mounted low and in an inverted-V orientation which make it not as good of an antenna as a *classic* dipole.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

Yes, the exact problem I face since I have my dipole in inverted Vee fashion as opposed to a classic dipole. I knew I was losing gain but not as much as your figures show. I have a tree climber who will do work for me when the weather warms up.  I'm thinking of an 80 meter loop as high as he can safely climb.

73,

Chris/NU1O
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 10:59:25 PM by NU1O » Logged
NX7U
Member

Posts: 56


WWW

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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2013, 11:30:22 PM »

Mobile screwdriver antennas (both at home and mobile) are all I've had for the last 15 years...until I put up my "big" antenna, a Gap Titan DX.
Need Just One More for DXCC Honor Roll...and it's like Water Torture.  ZD9, 1A0, 6O have all been on in the last year with No Joy.
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Scott NX7U in DM43
K3VAT
Member

Posts: 699




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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2013, 05:36:43 AM »

I am interested in how many regulars on this list are not using beams or quads, but instead are using dipoles, verticals, random wires-basically no or very little gain antennas. ...

At the current K3VAT all trap dipoles (one WARC at 30' and one non-WARC at 40') and one 55' tree vertical (wire running up the side of the tree and 30 short radials for low bands).  Have earned DXCC on the WARC bands with this arrangement and added a few dozen band-fills to my non-WARC 6BDXCC.

Reason why no beams/towers = relocated to retirement community with HOA limitations against towers and visible antennas such as yagis/quads/hexbeams/etc.

Plans: none.  Perhaps build more efficient dipoles (fatter, rotatable and higher in the trees), but am content with current arrangement.

73, Rich, K3VAT
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WB0CJB
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2013, 04:15:37 PM »

I use either a Hustler 6BTV with 24 radials or a Cushcraft AV4. At one time I used a longwire to work my first Russian DX back in the mid 70's. Overall I have almost 200 countries. 100+ on 40,20, and 15. 80 countries on 10 and 31 on 80. My goal is for 5BDXCC and 5BWAS.

When I first got into ham radio I wanted that beam and amp as most hams told me I needed one to work the DX. But after I began using a vertical I found that one could work the DX without an amp and beam. Granted its more of a challenge and you need patience and persistence but in the end it pays off. There are days when you can work a DX station without any effort at all, even in a pileup.

I worked a Falkland Island station on 80 late one night. Another very memorable contact was with KC4USP in the Antarctic on 20 phone. The band was literally as quiet as a church mouse and not another station could be heard trying to call him.You will be surprised at what you can do with a modest radio and antenna!
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N4UM
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Posts: 440




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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2013, 05:03:38 PM »

23 foot homebrew "flagpole" vertical for 10 thru 40.   80 meter attic dipole fed with ladder line 15 ft. above ground.
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N5UD
Member

Posts: 775




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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2013, 05:09:47 AM »

Screwdriver antenna on Chevy pickup. Around 285 worked since the end of 2010. 2011 was 244 and all zones with TS-480 barefoot. If I was near a coast,
it would be a better performer. Location does make a difference.

 I read a comment on high band performance falls off with a screwdriver vs yagi. I agree. I mean not by just a few S units. Sometimes it is night and day. 15M through 40M however I have a good chance of making that QSO. Sometimes I get bored and operate 80M
Even here I can surprise the DX-peds ops by breaking through.

Also another comment on dipole, horizontal up high. When I had an antenna garden, not farm. I had a two element 40M yagi at 55 feet. Then a 4 element long boom quad 10-20M at 90 feet. The boom was extended to full size 40M dipole. The dipole at 90 was as good or better than 2 el yagi at 55. Plus it covered entire
band with a near flat SWR.

73 Tony N5UD /M
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K3STX
Member

Posts: 956




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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2013, 08:20:25 PM »

I have only ever had dipoles or verticals. Verticals for 160/80 (and for a short time an elevated 40m vertical) and single band dipoles as well as a 100' long ladder line fed dipole up 50'. My 20/40 fan dipole will be up at 50' again soon; it is for Eu/VK. 312 confirmed total and most at 100 watts. Also have 400 watt amp. 5BDXCC (not TOO hard) and 170 zones (MUCH harder).

Will be sending first kid to college next year, have two others to follow. So no money for beams/quads. But I'm not complaining.

Paul
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