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Author Topic: Net Interference  (Read 6239 times)
G3RZP
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 03:17:46 AM »

Generally, over here, nets on 80m move up or down a bit if "their" frequency is in use. 2m is different.

A real lovely on 80m is the odd occasion when a commercial station working two frequency simplex or occasionally two frequency full duplex opens up on a net: they aren't listening on their transmit frequency, of course. Not so common these days, but 3.5 to 3.8 MHz is shared with the fixed and mobile services in Region 1.
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KF7Z
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 04:35:33 AM »


Quote
How many nets do you know that have bylaws?


Quite a few formally organized nets have bylaws.
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KF7Z
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« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 05:09:12 AM »

With my original post, I was hoping to both gauge the sentiment of the group, and start a discussing that might provide some positive guidance to impressionable new operators.  What with this being Easter Sunday morning and all, maybe I can be taken seriously when I suggest the following:

What bad could happen if a significant percentage of us chose to honor the (sometimes cited) fellowship of the amateur radio community, and committed to making our operating decisions based upon the principles of respect, kindness, and generosity for our fellow operators?  If so, when there was a conflict over a frequency, we would graciously just make the usually small effort to move a few kHz to one side.  We would do this no matter who was more "in the right".  Is it really so often that the bands are so crowded that there would be any significant cost to us?

Call me Pollyanna if you want, but please ask yourself, would you not like your children, and grandchildren, to learn and embrace the values of respect, kindness, and generosity to others?  If so, where else in our culture are they seeing adults demonstrating enough examples of those values?

What about you recently licensed operators in the U.S. that are operating under the no-code license rules?  These relaxed licensing rules have caused many "old timers" to fret that you, as a group, are going to turn the amateur bands into another version of C.B. radio.  Can you go on record here and now as personally committing to always demonstrate respect, kindness and generosity while on the air?

What about you EMCOMM organizers and participants?  You are prepared to be quite generous and concerned about the welfare of your brothers and sisters in time of crisis.  Why would you then choose not to be respectful, kind, and generous to your fellow amateur operators every day?  Can you go on record here and now as personally committing to always demonstrate respect, kindness and generosity while on the air?

What about those of you who fashion yourselves to be Elmers to new hams?  What are you teaching about operating practices?  Can you go on record here and now as personally committing to always demonstrate respect, kindness and generosity while on the air?

What about you Volunteer Examiners? You are credentialed representatives of the hobby. What do you say?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 05:15:16 AM by KF7Z » Logged
KF7YHB
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« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2013, 04:01:22 PM »

Well, thought I'd just throw my two cents in on the subject.  I'm new to the ham radio community, so guess you could say I haven't made "my bones" like a lot of the other OTs out there.  But, I had a great old-school Elmer who helped me along and gave some foresight into situations such as these.

First and foremost should be the fact that you, as an amateur radio operator, have a personal "professional" investment in the hobby.  What's a few of the first things we learn as amateur radio operators?

          1.  Do not intentionally cause any interference with ongoing radio operations (unless there's an emergency).

          2.  Always ask if the frequency is in use before commencing operation on a given frequency.

          3.  Nobody "owns" airwaves.

As far as I'm concerned, these common sense rules apply to everyone, not just the "New Guys".  I work CW most of the time and I know when I was starting out, I committed a few "Fax pas".  Most of the time the other ops would work around me, realizing I was a greenhorn.  But now and then, an OT would take the time to point out my trespass!

I haven't been in the hobby near as long as a lot of others here in this forum, but, I have been around long enough to experience some of the described behavior.  It is frustrating.  The next time you have such an experience, try to refrain from breaking out the 'ol .45 and shovel and ask yourself, "What separates yourself from the typical "Trash-Talking CB'ers?".

Ultimately, when you engage in back-n-forth arguments with these types of operators, you are actually becoming what you despise.

Just My Thoughts,
KF7YHB



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VE3FMC
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« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2013, 06:35:32 PM »

But what would you tell a new licensee about how to respond to the situation?

I'd show that new user why CW is worth learning and so much fun. 


73

Please tell me why I have been operating digital modes and have had a CW net come right on top of my QSO and start operating without asking if the frequency was in use. CW nets do not own a certain frequency anymore than a SSB does.


Nets are just that, a net. IMO if the so called NET frequency is in use there are two things that can happen.

1. The NCS can politely ask the other stations to QSY up or down.

2. If the guys that were using the frequency refuse to move then the NCS asks those that are listening and want to check into the net to move up or down.

No one owns a frequency, whether it be an established net or Joe Ham who is operating on a frequency. Getting into a pissing match really doesn't solve the problem.



Interrogative

How would a CW operator convey to the digital operator that a net was starting

He can't, but that does give him the right to start transmitting right on top of the digital QSO that is happening on the frequency.

He can move up or down and start his CW net. I am pretty sure that not many hams are rock bound these days. But then again some do not know how to operate a VFO. They have set their rigs on a certain frequency for the past 30 years and never moved from that spot on the band!

Hey I don't go down to the CW portion of the band and start calling CQ with a digital mode & 100 watts on top of an ongoing CW QSO. So it works both ways, or it should.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2013, 08:24:49 PM »

7Z:  Sounds great.  The Pope also made a pleading for peace this Easter.  Good luck to you both.

This stuff has been going on since Cane and Able.  What we would like and what is, sadly, are two different things and I see absolutely no improvement in the future.

So the name of the game seems to be "deal with it!" 
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KC8QMU
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 03:16:58 PM »

Sounds to me like the band went long that night.............
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N4TTS
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 07:11:17 PM »

  <snip>Would you encourage your QSO in-progress to move off of a net frequency?

First off, like it or not, the net was interfering with the preexisting communication on frequency, not the other way around.
The three ops involved in their conversation could have moved but because they didn't doesn't make them inconsiderate or bad people.

How many of us have attempted to get together to converse with our friends on a favorite frequency only to find it occupied, locate an empty spot, strike up a conversation and then 10 minutes later get hit up to find another frequency due to some other group laying claim to the slot because, "we've been meeting here every day for 20 years".

Well I say, "you may have but not today".

Put this in context if you want to call the three operators out for being rude:

My two friends and I go to a local pub. We're seated in a booth and are already enjoying our food and drinks, having a great round of conversation. Some stranger comes up to the table and asks us if we would mind moving to a different table because he and his friends have been coming to this place for years and always get the table my friends and I are sitting at so they would appreciate it if we would take all our food and drink and go somewhere else.

Who in their right mind would be so presumptuous as to make a request like that?
It doesn't seem to bother the net-bois to do the same thing so they can read an ancient preamble and precede to take check-ins from participants who inevitably have "no traffic" other than the local weather report.

No one owns a frequency according to the rules I read. First come, first served.

I wouldn't start any radio war over it but I may crank up the attenuation and turn up the RF output to continue the conversation I was having with my friends. Someone wants to label me "rude and inconsiderate"? So be it

Don N4TTS



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G3RZP
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 01:03:19 AM »

I go alng with N4TTS. His analogy of the pub is excellent...
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N4TTS
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 09:50:34 AM »

so they can read an ancient preamble and precede to

And yes I know it's proceed but I couldn't edit it after posting because I didn't catch it until after the time out period...

Don N4TTS
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AJ4RW
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 05:42:40 PM »

Quote
My two friends and I go to a local pub. We're seated in a booth and are already enjoying our food and drinks, having a great round of conversation. Some stranger comes up to the table and asks us if we would mind moving to a different table because he and his friends have been coming to this place for years and always get the table my friends and I are sitting at so they would appreciate it if we would take all our food and drink and go somewhere else.

Don, I love this analogy.  I hope you don't mind but next time during a contest a net or group ask/demands I QSY, I will refer to this.  A group tried to interfere then told me I had to QSY during the WPX contest this last weekend.  Unfortunately for them I was willing to share the frequency but I put out a healthy signal so they QSY'd.  This was in the advanced portion of the band. 

Randy AJ4RW
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W0DV
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2013, 07:33:08 PM »

Very similar to contesters who grab 14.230 on the big day, then get all bent up because some SSTV'ers want to use the de facto gentlemanly agreed upon 20m SSTV slot.

Net control should have asked if the freq was in use. Three stooges should have said "Yes, but we are gentlemen and understand that this net is not some impromptu ad hoc endeavor, and we'll graciously move up or down, have a nice net".

Those fools who insist on SSTV remind me of when I was 6 years old, playing with play-doe, and squeezing weird shapes out of my play-doe machine.
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W1JKA
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« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 04:08:20 AM »

  As hard as I try I fail to see the analogy between SSTV and play dough unless you were referring to the last live TV episode of an aged drooling Captain Kangaroo doing his thing in the nursing home's recreation room.
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AA4PB
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« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2013, 05:20:33 AM »

Lets say you have a group of friends that meet for drinks every Friday night. There are 10 pubs in town and you never know which one may have some seats available. So, you tell your friends that they'll just have to search up and down the street until they find you. Wouldn't it be better if you could have a reserved location so that they know where to find you?
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K1CJS
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« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2013, 05:30:46 AM »

 As hard as I try I fail to see the analogy between SSTV and play dough unless you were referring to the last live TV episode of an aged drooling Captain Kangaroo doing his thing in the nursing home's recreation room.

The way I see it, it's an analogy between things that produces questionable results.  You know how a slow scan TV picture sometimes turns out--grainy and smudged?  Well, the old Play-Doh machines were like that.  No matter how hard you tried, the results were mis-shapened and ragged--just like a SSTV picture after reception.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 05:33:01 AM by K1CJS » Logged
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