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Author Topic: SDR Cube Transceiver ?  (Read 18712 times)
ZENKI
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Posts: 934




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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 04:27:24 PM »

Unfortunately for Flexradio they would have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Flexradio concept is a dinosaur one  that cant deliver what hams really want.

If they had a true all digital transceiver platform they could do want you want. This is how most of the latest test instruments from Agilent and R&S works. A PC is just complimentary, you dont need a PC to make the product work. Engineers  have largely rejected black blox test instruments because most realize that you need a ergonomic box with controls and knobs that do things quickly.

Ham radio is no different, a box with knobs accomplishes this in the best possible way. Having a PC too access deep menu functions and do things like point and click tuning  with a  mouse is perfectly suited to a PC and a mouse. There is however no reason why the mouse and keyboard could not be plugged into the box without needing a PC! In fact you dont really need a PC,  embedded operating systems work very well. We also have the added touch screen dimension. I have used a touch screen with a SDR receiver and frankly a PC with a mouse is a pain in the rear end after the touch screen experience.





Why can't you have both.  You can use PowerSDR at home on Windoze and when you go out to the field you can leave that an home and use the LCD interface on the cube.
I agree with you, also flex can do the same with one of its rig's,and in time will most likely do so when its customer demand it.
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ZENKI
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Posts: 934




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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2011, 04:43:50 PM »

Who gets to decide what is and is not "obsolete"?

The MARKET!  The vast majority of the market dont want the Flexradio concept with a PC chained to their ankles.
Most hams demand a  box with knobs. You will never see a Flexradio in any multi multi contest station any time soon.


If it's so easy, why aren't YOU doing it? How many amateur radio transceivers have YOU designed, built, and used on the air?

I have homebrewed many radios and receivers for better performance. I dont have the money nor the desire to be in the amateur radio business. Unfortunately technology has  moved beyond the abilities of one man. If I sat down and completed a  SDR transceiver project it would take me 5 or more years.  I would probably be in the grave by the time I completed my SDR project.  I still have to earn a living so that rules out a SDR project, if my boss at work said do it  I would.

Even the herculean effort by the HPSDR has produced very little in the way of usable  products for the average ham. Expecting this advanced technology from a single ham when not even the likes of Harris or Rockwell have products like the ADAT transceiver is expecting too much from an  single individual.

If you have the means why dont you  put up the venture capital and recruit the talented individuals needed for an advanced SDR transceiver?


73 de Jim, N2EY
[/quote]
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M0FFF
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 04:49:51 AM »

Zenki is correct. I wrote to Flex several years ago telling them exactly that. Still the transceivers look like boxy guitar amplifiers. Not sexy!

Hams want something nice to look at - with lots of nobs and a touch screen.
They don't want to carry around like luggage a pc or laptop

The KX3 is a great step forward. I can't see whether it has an RJ45 connection. If not, if one was added together with some nice pc software then it would be unbeatable.

73s
M0FFF
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KA8SEP
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Posts: 38




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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 01:06:16 PM »

Gentlehams,  Wink

In My Not So Humble Opinion,  Roll Eyes A transceiver ceases to be a SDR if it can stand and run by itself. You now have a computerized transceiver with a lot of DSP that is connected to a computer by USB, or connected by IP to any computer/tablet/phone.

I'm not saying that the Cube is a bad radio. it may work very well. My point is that it is not SDR if it doesn't use a computer to process the signals.

Ted
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W0BTU
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Posts: 1665


WWW

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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 02:19:30 PM »

What's the difference where the computer is located? If the block diagram of the entire arrangement --from antenna to headphones-- is the same, I think it's still an SDR.
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K5TED
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Posts: 728




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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 04:18:56 PM »

Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government. It's not a foreign concept.

See the RT-9000D. No panafall.


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N0YXB
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Posts: 310




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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 09:05:01 PM »

The Wireless Innovation Forum defines a software defined radio as a "Radio in which some or all of the physical layer functions are software defined". 

And goes on to say, "SDR defines a collection of hardware and software technologies where some or all of the radio’s operating functions (also referred to as physical layer processing) are implemented through modifiable software or firmware operating on programmable processing technologies. These devices include field programmable gate arrays (FPGA), digital signal processors (DSP), general purpose processors (GPP), programmable System on Chip (SoC) or other application specific programmable processors. The use of these technologies allows new wireless features and capabilities to be added to existing radio systems without requiring new hardware."
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SWL2002
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Posts: 270




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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 03:34:28 AM »

Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government. It's not a foreign concept.

See the RT-9000D. No panafall.




This is not correct.  Flex Radio supplied the RT-8100 to Sunair <http://www.ea1uro.com/RT-8100.pdf> and it did have a waterfall because it used a modified version of PowerSDR.  It did not sell well and was discontinued within a year or so.  This is the only radio that Flex supplied to Sunair.

Flex has nothing to do with the RT-9000D.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 03:37:07 AM by SWL2002 » Logged
W6RMK
Member

Posts: 651




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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 06:08:57 AM »

Gentlehams,  Wink

In My Not So Humble Opinion,  Roll Eyes A transceiver ceases to be a SDR if it can stand and run by itself. You now have a computerized transceiver with a lot of DSP that is connected to a computer by USB, or connected by IP to any computer/tablet/phone.

I'm not saying that the Cube is a bad radio. it may work very well. My point is that it is not SDR if it doesn't use a computer to process the signals.

Ted


An SDR is a radio where the function of the radio is determined by software. ("software defined"). In general, that is taken to mean that the modulation and demodulation are done by software, whether it is instantiated in a reprogrammable FPGA or by loading new software on a CPU based system (DSP or conventional). 

An SDR is not a "computer controlled knobs" radio where the basic function of the radio is determined by the hardware. The functions of my IC7000 are mostly determined by the hardware, albeit everything is controlled by a microprocessor; it is not an SDR.

The Flex is an SDR, by this definition (which follows from the first papers on software defined radio, by Mitola and others). So is a USRP.

Most commercial SDRs use FPGAs as the processing element, in order to get the DSP throughput needed, so I'd change your statement to "it's not an SDR if the processing isn't done by something reprogrammable"
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K5TED
Member

Posts: 728




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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2013, 09:04:02 AM »

Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government. It's not a foreign concept.

See the RT-9000D. No panafall.




This is not correct.  Flex Radio supplied the RT-8100 to Sunair <http://www.ea1uro.com/RT-8100.pdf> and it did have a waterfall because it used a modified version of PowerSDR.  It did not sell well and was discontinued within a year or so.  This is the only radio that Flex supplied to Sunair.

Flex has nothing to do with the RT-9000D.




What's not correct?

Did Flex supply SDR tech to Sunair? YES
Did Sunair subsequently release the RT-8000 which did indeed feature knobs? YES

Is the new model RT-9000D a SDR with knobs? YES
Does it have a panafall? NO



Do you have an inside track to Sunair and Flex that allows you to state with certainty that no Flex technology or derivatives thereof are incorporated in the RT-9000D?



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SWL2002
Member

Posts: 270




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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2013, 09:59:36 AM »

Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government. It's not a foreign concept.

See the RT-9000D. No panafall.




This is not correct.  Flex Radio supplied the RT-8100 to Sunair <http://www.ea1uro.com/RT-8100.pdf> and it did have a waterfall because it used a modified version of PowerSDR.  It did not sell well and was discontinued within a year or so.  This is the only radio that Flex supplied to Sunair.

Flex has nothing to do with the RT-9000D.




What's not correct?

Did Flex supply SDR tech to Sunair? YES
Did Sunair subsequently release the RT-8000 which did indeed feature knobs? YES

Is the new model RT-9000D a SDR with knobs? YES
Does it have a panafall? NO



Do you have an inside track to Sunair and Flex that allows you to state with certainty that no Flex technology or derivatives thereof are incorporated in the RT-9000D?





Yes, in fact my son works for Sunair.  Sunair and Flex have long parted ways.  Sunair is north of me in Fort Lauderdale.

Your post tried to imply that Flex Radio had something to do with the RT-9000D, which is far away from the truth.  You need to refrain from posting about things you know nothing about.

Look at the list of Sunair's industry partners: http://www.sunairelectronics.com/web/industry-partners/

No Flex Radio to be found.  Flex could not deliver the solution it promised and therefor Sunair and Flex went their separate ways.
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W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 367




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« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2013, 12:57:53 PM »

I consider a tuning knob and a display on an SDR radio to be useless redundant items that needlessly drive up the cost of the unit. Whether or not the processing power is outboard of the rig like my 1500, the 3K and the 5K or inboard like the Elecraft KX-3 and the Flex 6000 series I still want some type of GUI, either from my desktop PC or from a tablet. I may be in the minority among a bunch of old fart dinosaur hams who want to sit around yanking on their "knobs" all day but I PREFER the PowerSDR type interface with mouse tuning. IMO the worst decision Flex ever made was bringing out the Flex control. Why handicap the great interface that PowerSDR has with a dang knob!!??
73,
Michael, W4HIJ
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K5TED
Member

Posts: 728




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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2013, 01:03:24 PM »

Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government. It's not a foreign concept.

See the RT-9000D. No panafall.






This is not correct.  Flex Radio supplied the RT-8100 to Sunair <http://www.ea1uro.com/RT-8100.pdf> and it did have a waterfall because it used a modified version of PowerSDR.  It did not sell well and was discontinued within a year or so.  This is the only radio that Flex supplied to Sunair.

Flex has nothing to do with the RT-9000D.




What's not correct?

Did Flex supply SDR tech to Sunair? YES
Did Sunair subsequently release the RT-8000 which did indeed feature knobs? YES

Is the new model RT-9000D a SDR with knobs? YES
Does it have a panafall? NO



Do you have an inside track to Sunair and Flex that allows you to state with certainty that no Flex technology or derivatives thereof are incorporated in the RT-9000D?





Yes, in fact my son works for Sunair.  Sunair and Flex have long parted ways.  Sunair is north of me in Fort Lauderdale.

Your post tried to imply that Flex Radio had something to do with the RT-9000D, which is far away from the truth.  You need to refrain from posting about things you know nothing about.

Look at the list of Sunair's industry partners: http://www.sunairelectronics.com/web/industry-partners/

No Flex Radio to be found.  Flex could not deliver the solution it promised and therefor Sunair and Flex went their separate ways.


You didn't highlight what part of my post is incorrect. You also took the liberty of inferring that my post implies something which serves only to enable your misplaced rebuttal.


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SWL2002
Member

Posts: 270




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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2013, 01:45:34 PM »


You didn't highlight what part of my post is incorrect. You also took the liberty of inferring that my post implies something which serves only to enable your misplaced rebuttal.


You are specifically wrong when you say "Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government".  The only radio Flex produced for Sunair was the RT-8100, which DID NOT have knobs and DID have a waterfall display AND was mouse driven.  So you were wrong on both the knobs and the waterfall display.

Quote from: K5TED
Did Sunair subsequently release the RT-8000 which did indeed feature knobs? YES

NO. There is no RT-8000 PERIOD, let alone with knobs.  If you are mistakenly referring the to RT-8100 it does NOT have knobs.  

Your problem is that you post misinformation and then cannot admit you were wrong.  
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 01:59:28 PM by SWL2002 » Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 728




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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2013, 04:34:55 PM »


You didn't highlight what part of my post is incorrect. You also took the liberty of inferring that my post implies something which serves only to enable your misplaced rebuttal.


You are specifically wrong when you say "Flexradio teamed up with Sunair years ago to produce "knobbed" SDR radios for commercial and government".  The only radio Flex produced for Sunair was the RT-8100, which DID NOT have knobs and DID have a waterfall display AND was mouse driven.  So you were wrong on both the knobs and the waterfall display.

Quote from: K5TED
Did Sunair subsequently release the RT-8000 which did indeed feature knobs? YES

NO. There is no RT-8000 PERIOD, let alone with knobs.  If you are mistakenly referring the to RT-8100 it does NOT have knobs.  

Your problem is that you post misinformation and then cannot admit you were wrong.  

You are correct. Excuse my misinformation.
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