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Author Topic: How many will admit to it?  (Read 6901 times)
N0IU
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 04:36:27 AM »

The results actually make me feel a LOT prouder of my DXCC totals, none of which had ANY help besides the spotting clusters.
My number on DXCC certificate does not have an asterix next to it!

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AF3Y
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 04:58:18 AM »

Since I started this one, and got the almost expected answers/results, I get to pick my favorite reply. Peter has a better way of saying it than I do, and I agree with him almost 100%, so if you missed his reply, here it is:

I really feel sorry for anybody on this forum who still uses nets for anything other than catching fish or setting up a tennis court. On HF, and for the most part, the only use I have for a DX net is to say hi to an old friend. If you've never known better I won't hold it against you, but if you need it now, after participating in this forum (or other, similar groups) you really have my sympathy--and I sure as he-double-hockey-sticks won't call you a DXer. A List-Lizard™ perhaps, but not a DXer.

With one and only one exception. Something ultra-rare. As in "top-10", with one operator authorized to be there who works HF in no other fashion. The guy on Wake was a good example, until the Wake DXPedition was announced. Work him once and once only for the counter and I don't have an issue.

Your own ethics and personal views may be different that mine in this regard but that's how this DXer views List-Lizards™. Right up there with kids, lids and space cadets. If you've done it in the past without knowing any better consider yourself forgiven. I said it before. I did, for a few months, before I got my head out of my @#$. If you still call into a net to work DX, and anybody else on this forum hears you, well....prepare for a Virtual Wedgie <grin>.

Thinking about it, at least my posts regarding nets, skeds, etc. are more or less on-topic. (This is after all a ham radio forum)  Not like the never ending, off-topic, idiotic political/moral rants from some in the audience.

Thanks for the on-topic replies.

73,  Gene AF3Y
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K1ZJH
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 06:27:21 AM »

Gene... that is a sticky wicket. Is it more wrong to just grab the easy ones on a net, and fight the herds for the rare ones? Or, should we work the easy ones in the open, and hope that stations like A51JS show up on a net Smiley

I'd wonder what guys would do if a P5 showed up, a once in a lifetime shot per the NK government, who was only authorized (or wanted) to operate in a net?  What that QSO, on the net, was the final ATNO for HR?

Pete
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AF3Y
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 06:37:15 AM »

Gene... that is a sticky wicket. Is it more wrong to just grab the easy ones on a net, and fight the herds for the rare ones? Or, should we work the easy ones in the open, and hope that stations like A51JS show up on a net Smiley

A5 was not that tough, at least not for me. (Luck?Huh) Undecided

I'd wonder what guys would do if a P5 showed up, a once in a lifetime shot per the NK government, who was only authorized (or wanted) to operate in a net?  What that QSO, on the net, was the final ATNO for HR?

I guess then I would find out just how firm my feelings regarding nets/skeds really are.  I dont know, I hope we all can work P5 someday, without any help. 73, Gene

Pete
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AB8MA
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 07:41:17 AM »


I'd wonder what guys would do if a P5 showed up, a once in a lifetime shot per the NK government, who was only authorized (or wanted) to operate in a net?  What that QSO, on the net, was the final ATNO for HR?

Pete

Imagine being asked to be the DX Net Control for that operation.
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NU1O
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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2013, 07:45:57 AM »


Thinking about it, at least my posts regarding nets, skeds, etc. are more or less on-topic. (This is after all a ham radio forum)  Not like the never ending, off-topic, idiotic political/moral rants from some in the audience.

Thanks for the on-topic replies.

73,  Gene AF3Y

Be specific. Give me some recent posts you have in mind which you feel don't belong in this forum. If you want to be real strict about it this is a "DX Forum", not a general ham forum. I may go off-topic from time to time but the overwhelming majority of my posts are about DX stations, propagation, QSLing, etc.  Your pro-CW posts really belong in the CW forum and not the DX forum so you go off-topic as well as I do except I'll admit it and you have not. Not to mention your constant rants about DX nets where you've given your opinion many, many times. They've reached the point where they are ad nauseum.

You also made yet another anti-net post and you saw the results to your question. About 80% disagree with you and in political terms that would be labeled as the mother of all landslides so you opinion is simply a minority opinion.  Your entitled to your opinion but how many net posts are you going to write before you call it a day?  Take me up on my bet and make an easy $20 since you stated that was your last net post.  I just don't think it will be your last net post so I'm willing to take the other side of the bet.

If that post Peter wrote was aimed at me do you and Peter really think I need to check into the ANZA Net to pickup new countries with 318 countries worked?  I'm not going to work any of the remaining 22 countries I need in the ANZA Net. They will be worked when somebody runs an expedition to them. My opinion is that somebody with a 10 element tribander on a tower and running an Alpha amplifier (that would be me) should not need to pickup new countries in a net, but I don't see anything wrong with me talking to old friends from the net a few times a month and actually handing out my state to Pacific stations with very modest stations, rather than picking up new countries. I also don't have a problem with a US station running 100 Watts to a very modest antenna from checking into the ANZA Net, or any other net, for that matter. I did it when I was first licensed back in 1988 and 1989 and running 100 Watts to a vertical that I highly doubt was 25% efficient.

Answer me a simple question, please. Have you ever checked into, or listened to the ANZA Net?  None of that simulated dialogue you wrote in your message goes on in the ANZA Net. You get, and give a report, and if it's wrong they don't let you keep guessing or help you as I would admit they do in a prominent 40 meter WAS Net.  All nets do not operate by the same rules.

You also failed to answer a simple question I posed to you: If you and another ham had worked the identical number of countries would you consider your number as superior since you don't partake in nets?

73,

Chris/NU1O
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 08:29:48 AM by NU1O » Logged
WS3N
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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2013, 07:51:43 AM »

Smart-ass checking in again.

It has always seemed to me that there are two broad groups.

One group sees themselves as people who chase DX. Their efforts may be small, by choice or necessity, or they may put great effort into building a station, and spend a great deal of time at the radio. Also, they may or may not pursue awards. To this group, DXing is a hobby done for personal enjoyment and satisfaction, and what others choose to do has no impact on that.

Those in the second group are very similar in outward appearance, operating a little or a lot, putting varying degrees of effort into their stations. However, this group sees DXing as more than a hobby. They self-identify as DXers, and get a great deal of self-worth from being a member of this "elite" group. (DX IS. If you don't hear the sound of one hand clapping you're not in our group.) They need to keep DXing pure, and the way others pursue DX matters, because any perception that DXing is not a high, mystic art must mean that their group is not all that special.
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NU1O
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« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2013, 08:00:40 AM »

With one and only one exception. Something ultra-rare. As in "top-10", with one operator authorized to be there who works HF in no other fashion. The guy on Wake was a good example, until the Wake DXPedition was announced. Work him once and once only for the counter and I don't have an issue.


If you feel so strongly against nets why should there be any exceptions at all?

73,

Chris/NU1O
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W2IRT
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« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2013, 08:47:37 AM »

With one and only one exception. Something ultra-rare. As in "top-10", with one operator authorized to be there who works HF in no other fashion. The guy on Wake was a good example, until the Wake DXPedition was announced. Work him once and once only for the counter and I don't have an issue.


If you feel so strongly against nets why should there be any exceptions at all?

If it's the only possible way to work an ultra-rare DX entity for the very foreseeable future it doesn't really bug me. Jim on Bhutan, the op on Wake or the hypothetical posed upthread about one guy on P5 or something like that. Do what you gotta do to get in the log once, and accept no assistance in exchanging reports. No "last-two" or any of that other nonsense either. Full calls, exchanges as you see fit. To paraphrase one of my favourite filthy ditties by John Valby, "Get in, get out, quit "messin'" about."

The sin isn't the net itself, it's that reliance on a crutch to do something that doesn't and shouldn't require spoonfeeding. Take the damned training wheels off your station and learn to ride. A good DXer will seek out a new entity or bandfill where and how it lies, but I can't think of more than a couple of very exceptional circumstances where a DX entity that is found on nets isn't also found in the wild, and those were mentioned earlier. Ashley in Liberia? How about 5M2TT, 5L2MS, EL1LL, EL2DT or EL2DX. Most in contests or DXpeditions. 10 through 160. Even the little pistols can manage one Q with one of these stations, on one band/mode in 2 or 3 years. Dudley in Zambia? He's regularly on CW and SSB normally. I work him at least once a year for a Marathon point or to just say hi and sometimes he's begging calling CQ or only has a couple of callers. Also worked 9J2KC and Vlad, 9J2VB. On and on it goes.

I'm not talking out my rump here 'cuz I've done all this before, when I had a crap station and didn't know any better. I felt I had to leave the training wheels on cuz a puny little TS-820 and a dipole couldn't possibly work rare stuff like Australia or Tahiti or Zambia (hell, I didn't even know what a Zambia was at the time...isn't that where they make Zambonis <grin>?  No, that's Zambonia!). Then I worked Baker-Howland (K1B). Then I worked Eritrea. Then I worked Trindade within 3 hours of it going QRV. And Johnston Atoll. And Cocos Island. And so on and so forth. then I discovered how much more I could work if I learned a little bit of CW and how to operate RTTY. Off went the training wheels and on went the confidence. I didn't have eham's DX forum or elmering DXer friends back then to steer me down the straight and narrow course. It was all self-discovery, trial and error and lots and lots of reading, map-scouring and the like, finally finding this bunch. I stopped riding the short DX schoolbus in about 2 weeks.

Would I ever operate in a net again? Sure for a P5 or a fisherman temporarily operating off the dock at South Georgia or South Shetland or Crozet, if that was the only way to get him. That's the embodiment of DX IS, really. The ham equivalent of "hit 'em where they lie." (No I'm not talking about Congress here, though the argument could be made....) I'd never bust anybody's chops for a contact of a top-10 that way, but anything else? What's the damned point. Ain't no tricycles in the Tour de France.
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K3NRX
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« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2013, 09:44:16 AM »

I really feel sorry for anybody on this forum who still uses nets for anything other than catching fish or setting up a tennis court. On HF, and for the most part, the only use I have for a DX net is to say hi to an old friend. If you've never known better I won't hold it against you, but if you need it now, after participating in this forum (or other, similar groups) you really have my sympathy--and I sure as he-double-hockey-sticks won't call you a DXer. A List-Lizard™ perhaps, but not a DXer.

With one and only one exception. Something ultra-rare. As in "top-10", with one operator authorized to be there who works HF in no other fashion. The guy on Wake was a good example, until the Wake DXPedition was announced. Work him once and once only for the counter and I don't have an issue.

Your own ethics and personal views may be different that mine in this regard but that's how this DXer views List-Lizards™. Right up there with kids, lids and space cadets. If you've done it in the past without knowing any better consider yourself forgiven. I said it before. I did, for a few months, before I got my head out of my @#$. If you still call into a net to work DX, and anybody else on this forum hears you, well....prepare for a Virtual Wedgie <grin>.

Like I said before Pete Baby!....PROUDLY ADMITTED to multiple net usage over the years without one ounce of the guilt you "competition seekers" are trying to lay on us......You can feel sorry for me and guys like me all you want....I told you guys many times....this is HOBBY....LEISURE TIME.....FOR FUN.....There is freakin enough in life to worry about and be stressed over than whether or not some old coddger who hasn't been laid since the Eisenhower administration thinks the qsos made on a DX net are not worth a hill of beans.....No need to feel sorry for me, man.....I am happy to obtain my dx as I see fit.....within the boundries of the rules and regs.....Like I said before, you don't like it?....Then you and Geno and others that share your belief go and petetion the ARRL and FCC to get them off the frequencies.....They will laugh at you.....if you are going to feel sorry for someone like me, feel sorry for me when I am in a pile filled with Lids, Screamers, Alligators, KC Cops, Banshees, Goons, Thugs, Pugs and Mugs....when I am desperately trying to get another new country.....Until I am able to get the QRO or Antenna that I crave for such an endeavor.....Don't feel sorry for me when I am working DX stress free and in an orderly fashions......Can we please let this freaking tired old dead horse finally die now?Huh......Damn!....we really need for these conditions to improve!!!!....

V
KA3NRX

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VK3HJ
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« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2013, 11:00:57 AM »

Wasn't Dudley Z22JE (SK)?  I think 9J2BO is a different OP who has the very distinctive CW fist.
73,
Chris/NU1O

Correct, Chris. I did actually work Dudley for my first Z2 on the ANZA Net some years ago.
9J2BO is Brian, and I have enjoyed a chat with him on a few bands now, never just a "599 TU" QSO.
A few years ago, one of our YJ0VK SSB ops checked into the ANZA Net. Unfortunately, someone spotted him, and the poor old Net Control op had to wind up the net early, as the indiscipline and disrespect of many callers from a certain part of the world made it impossible to continue.
73,
Luke VK3HJ
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2013, 11:37:46 AM »

I really think both sides of this should stop getting so personal with each other.

To an extent Gene has a point but the problem with it is that he himself admits to using Clusters which IMO is a major crutch!

Could you imagine time traveling a SK HR Ham who died in 1970 and transporting him to 2013 and showing him the Cluster?   He would probably Laugh his sides off if you told him you had HR but used the Cluster to help get it.  In his day you had to scan up and down the Bands for hours and hours everyday and night.  Today you can be sitting in your living room watching TV and your cell phone will go off with an email telling you that a rare DX just came on-line and with that you already know his CALL (one half of the equation removed) and exactly what Frequency he's on and which countries his signal is reaching!

If I live to be 80 and see some young operator in 2040 talking about nothing is wrong with
Automated DXing where the OP can be out walking the dog while his Radio scans the cluster then changes freq to a DX spot locks onto a ID tone from the Dx, transmits its own ID tone, exchanges a digital signal report and logs the QSO automatically and then tells me that's an acceptable QSO, at that point I may find myself feeling a lot like Gene but until then I just can't get myself worked up about how someone else makes their contacts.  Ham Radio is supposed to be FUN not something to stress yourself about.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 11:41:59 AM by KD8MJR » Logged
W2IRT
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« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2013, 11:51:21 AM »

Could you imagine time traveling a SK HR Ham who died in 1970 and transporting him to 2013 and showing him the Cluster?   He would probably Laugh his sides off if you told him you had HR but used the Cluster to help get it.  In his day you had to scan up and down the Bands for hours and hours everyday and night.

Not necessarily, though there was more of it. You'd have DX clubs and groups of friends who put up repeaters or before that, had "single-jingle" phone trees for when something rare was heard. Bulletins were prized possessions where you would know when and where to expect a rare one. You didn't have the 9-band/3-mode-or-bust pandemonium that exists now either.
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2013, 12:10:52 PM »

Could you imagine time traveling a SK HR Ham who died in 1970 and transporting him to 2013 and showing him the Cluster?   He would probably Laugh his sides off if you told him you had HR but used the Cluster to help get it.  In his day you had to scan up and down the Bands for hours and hours everyday and night.

Not necessarily, though there was more of it. You'd have DX clubs and groups of friends who put up repeaters or before that, had "single-jingle" phone trees for when something rare was heard. Bulletins were prized possessions where you would know when and where to expect a rare one. You didn't have the 9-band/3-mode-or-bust pandemonium that exists now either.

Bulletins in the 1960's Huh
If a Ham was HR by 1970 he would have worked most of those between 1946 - 1969.  Still I do know that there was some aids like you said but nothing even remotely close to what the cluster offers.  Most ops who hit HR in the 70's would probably scoff at the thought of even using bandscopes, they would think of it as another major crutch.
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NU1O
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« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2013, 12:38:27 PM »


Once in a while I like to get on the Anza DX net.  These guys are very professional and a lot of fun to work.  And when the propagation allows I become the DX and everyone on the net wants to work me Grin  Over many Anza net sessions I did net a few garden variety Oceania contacts such as V73, H44, 5W, etc.  Only one contact I made that is still my one and only contact for an ATNO- VK9NMZ.  I'm proud of this QSO not because it's an ATNO but I got to know the operator through numerous correspondences.  And I got to learn about Norfolk's history and beauty as a result of this 'Net' contact.  This never happens in a regular DX qso.  So DX nets have a special place in my heart.

DX is more than just a number on a leaderboard or a plaque on the wall.  To me the friendship is what makes DX IS.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
Jonathan,

That is the nice thing about the ANZA Net. They take it very seriously and since there are many guys on from VK, ZL, and the other Pacific Islands the few of us who log in from the US become the DX instead of chasing the DX which is a nice turn of events.  It's also nice to know there are a great group of hams on at 1 AM for nights when I can't sleep.

You are also correct about another thing: I cherish the friends I have made all over the world more than any award I could ever be awarded. Last night I worked an Australian ham I haven't worked since 2000, just a random QSO no net.  I had earlier worked a Hawaiian station who used to live in Mass. near Lexington and Concord and although I didn't recognize his particular town I told him my QSL card was a picture of the Minuteman statue on Lexington Green. Many people go to college in Boston so I'm always running into both US and foreign hams who have studied or worked in Boston.  I had a QSO with a very good English speaking Japanese ham last week who worked for one of the high tech firms in Boston and he still knew the state very well.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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