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Author Topic: How many will admit to it?  (Read 6965 times)
KD8MJR
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« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2013, 05:43:07 PM »

I just wanted to add to my post #56 that to be fair to Gene it's not like he has any choice in using the Cluster, it has become one of those necessary evils for even the purest of Hams (assuming that Ham is a DXer and wants to make HR).   And yes I know plenty of Hams made HR without the cluster but that was years ago, today it's almost impossible to make those same QSO's with everybody knowing where the DX is 5 minutes after he starts talking.

The problem is that if you use the cluster it's pretty hard to make a good argument about other forms of help.  I do agree with Gene that some forms of help have become really stupid and do dilute the purity of the DXCC but I don't see any way around it so I don't let it stress me out.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 05:48:52 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
K3NRX
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« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2013, 06:36:21 PM »

I really feel sorry for anybody on this forum who still uses nets for anything other than catching fish or setting up a tennis court. On HF, and for the most part, the only use I have for a DX net is to say hi to an old friend. If you've never known better I won't hold it against you, but if you need it now, after participating in this forum (or other, similar groups) you really have my sympathy--and I sure as he-double-hockey-sticks won't call you a DXer. A List-Lizard™ perhaps, but not a DXer.

With one and only one exception. Something ultra-rare. As in "top-10", with one operator authorized to be there who works HF in no other fashion. The guy on Wake was a good example, until the Wake DXPedition was announced. Work him once and once only for the counter and I don't have an issue.

Your own ethics and personal views may be different that mine in this regard but that's how this DXer views List-Lizards™. Right up there with kids, lids and space cadets. If you've done it in the past without knowing any better consider yourself forgiven. I said it before. I did, for a few months, before I got my head out of my @#$. If you still call into a net to work DX, and anybody else on this forum hears you, well....prepare for a Virtual Wedgie <grin>.

Like I said before Pete Baby!....PROUDLY ADMITTED to multiple net usage over the years without one ounce of the guilt you "competition seekers" are trying to lay on us......You can feel sorry for me and guys like me all you want....I told you guys many times....this is HOBBY....LEISURE TIME.....FOR FUN.....There is freakin enough in life to worry about and be stressed over than whether or not some old coddger who hasn't been laid since the Eisenhower administration thinks the qsos made on a DX net are not worth a hill of beans.....No need to feel sorry for me, man.....I am happy to obtain my dx as I see fit.....within the boundries of the rules and regs.....Like I said before, you don't like it?....Then you and Geno and others that share your belief go and petetion the ARRL and FCC to get them off the frequencies.....They will laugh at you.....if you are going to feel sorry for someone like me, feel sorry for me when I am in a pile filled with Lids, Screamers, Alligators, KC Cops, Banshees, Goons, Thugs, Pugs and Mugs....when I am desperately trying to get another new country.....Until I am able to get the QRO or Antenna that I crave for such an endeavor.....Don't feel sorry for me when I am working DX stress free and in an orderly fashions......Can we please let this freaking tired old dead horse finally die now?Huh......Damn!....we really need for these conditions to improve!!!!....

V
KA3NRX


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AA9RN
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« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2013, 07:03:51 PM »

Having been spoon-fed QSOs, that is.

If you took these off of your DXCC totals, how many would it be (Or is it too many for you to remember?)?
******************************************************************************************
My answer is a solid NO to the first part.

Obviously a ZERO to the second part.  None of my 311 confirmed DXCC QSOs were spoon-fed.

Pretty sure that You know what spoon fed QSOs are, I don't think I need to define it.

73, Gene AF3Y


Well it depends on your view.I see it as if you use a cluster you are spoon fed. I guess everybody is spoon fed now days.
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NU1O
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« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2013, 11:31:00 PM »

Since I started this one, and got the almost expected answers/results, I get to pick my favorite reply. Peter has a better way of saying it than I do, and I agree with him almost 100%, so if you missed his reply, here it is:

73,  Gene AF3Y

Kindly explain how in reply #31 you wrote the following:

THANKS for all the replies.  I will admit, I am a little surprised at the results.  Looks like around 17 either think its OK, or have done it. 5 or so kinda or totally agree with me.

But, in the same day and a few messages later (reply #46) you now claim you got the almost expected answers/results?  Since 77% disagreed with your "purity test" regarding the use of nets you most certainly did not get the response you were anticipating since your first post says the results surprised you.

You are entitled to your opinions but not to the facts.

Is Peter going to be your DW, designated writer, for this reply also and when are you going to reply to my offer regarding the small $20 bet I suggested?    

73,

Chris/NU1O
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 11:33:09 PM by NU1O » Logged
KY6R
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« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2013, 11:27:07 AM »


Thinking about it, at least my posts regarding nets, skeds, etc. are more or less on-topic. (This is after all a ham radio forum)  Not like the never ending, off-topic, idiotic political/moral rants from some in the audience.

Thanks for the on-topic replies.

73,  Gene AF3Y

About 80% disagree with you and in political terms


I don't know what you mean by this and don't know how you could come up with such a statistic . . . .

I agree and disagree both with everyone on this forum at times. You will never be able to come up with a number since many times I just don't care - depending on the topic - especially when non ham radio or non-technical or non-DX-ing aspects are injected into these threads. I don't bother responding to those - but move on to something I find interesting. There is no way you can quantify what "most people" think. Also - there are vast numbers who actually read this forum who never respond. I know because they have emailed me about a topic or POV I have raised and said they never post on this forum.

I am conservative in some regards, liberal in others, patriotic without waving the flag - in short - there is no way you could ever know across the board where I stand because I am open minded an think "free range" on any topic brought up here. I don't care for anyone who seems to politicize a thread - but on the other hand I am 100% for free speech and would rather just ignore a thinly veiled rant than respond to it. And there are a lot of political aspects to DX-ing too - so I don't shoot anyone down for their opinions. Or try to say "N%" on this forum think one way or another.

Furthermore - some times a really great response will actually change my mind - or at least alter my point of view "somewhat". In fact - those who disagree with my POV are the ones who make me think the most - as long as they offer their opposing points of view with respect. I ignore and laugh at the name calling - that just makes mince meat of a thread.

Now - how much is "somewhat"? How do you quantify that? How do you quantify someone who agrees with two different and seemingly opposing POV's?

Here's an example:

I agree with Gene that nets suck. Only because the bozos who used to run the 247 DX Net totally trashed my chance of working Ludwig when he seemed to only want to activate ZS8 on that silly net. The bozos were self flaggelating and chest beating and bantering about each others signals and who had the bigger net control signal to "handle" Ludwig, that by the time they decided to let us poor slobs (aka "The Deserving") at Ludwig - the propagation was gone.

But - because DX Nets are allowed for DXCC credit - then I am good with that. Anyone can petition to change the rules - or better yet - not "opt in" to play if they don't like the rules. Hey - some of the entities on the list are really stupid and never should have been added, but I decided to play by the rules and accept that.

Rarely do I see any topic as black and white - because I might have been wrong for 30 years in my thinking and have a sudden "epiphany" - or - I might feel emotionally one way - but adhere to what the ARRL rules say about what is legal and what isn't.

And when I get a bit too "passionate" about a discussion on eHam - or on the air - or watch the silly stuff on the cluster, I step back, take a deep breath and laugh at myself for getting a little too excited about something that is just a hobby.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 12:11:29 PM by KY6R » Logged
KD8MJR
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« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2013, 01:31:01 PM »


I am conservative in some regards, liberal in others, patriotic without waving the flag - in short - there is no way you could ever know across the board where I stand because I am open minded an think "free range" on any topic brought up here. I don't care for anyone who seems to politicize a thread - but on the other hand I am 100% for free speech and would rather just ignore a thinly veiled rant than respond to it. And there are a lot of political aspects to DX-ing too - so I don't shoot anyone down for their opinions. Or try to say "N%" on this forum think one way or another.

Furthermore - some times a really great response will actually change my mind - or at least alter my point of view "somewhat". In fact - those who disagree with my POV are the ones who make me think the most - as long as they offer their opposing points of view with respect. I ignore and laugh at the name calling - that just makes mince meat of a thread.

Now - how much is "somewhat"? How do you quantify that? How do you quantify someone who agrees with two different and seemingly opposing POV's?

Here's an example:

I agree with Gene that nets suck. Only because the bozos who used to run the 247 DX Net totally trashed my chance of working Ludwig when he seemed to only want to activate ZS8 on that silly net. The bozos were self flaggelating and chest beating and bantering about each others signals and who had the bigger net control signal to "handle" Ludwig, that by the time they decided to let us poor slobs (aka "The Deserving") at Ludwig - the propagation was gone.

But - because DX Nets are allowed for DXCC credit - then I am good with that. Anyone can petition to change the rules - or better yet - not "opt in" to play if they don't like the rules. Hey - some of the entities on the list are really stupid and never should have been added, but I decided to play by the rules and accept that.

Rarely do I see any topic as black and white - because I might have been wrong for 30 years in my thinking and have a sudden "epiphany" - or - I might feel emotionally one way - but adhere to what the ARRL rules say about what is legal and what isn't.

And when I get a bit too "passionate" about a discussion on eHam - or on the air - or watch the silly stuff on the cluster, I step back, take a deep breath and laugh at myself for getting a little too excited about something that is just a hobby.

IMO Well said!
You think about life the same way I do.  I hope the event that bought you around to this way of thinking was not too bad.  I have found that only people who have experienced real problems in life understand not to get too serious about the minor stuff. 

73's
Robert
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KY6R
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« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2013, 02:56:26 PM »


I am conservative in some regards, liberal in others, patriotic without waving the flag - in short - there is no way you could ever know across the board where I stand because I am open minded an think "free range" on any topic brought up here. I don't care for anyone who seems to politicize a thread - but on the other hand I am 100% for free speech and would rather just ignore a thinly veiled rant than respond to it. And there are a lot of political aspects to DX-ing too - so I don't shoot anyone down for their opinions. Or try to say "N%" on this forum think one way or another.

Furthermore - some times a really great response will actually change my mind - or at least alter my point of view "somewhat". In fact - those who disagree with my POV are the ones who make me think the most - as long as they offer their opposing points of view with respect. I ignore and laugh at the name calling - that just makes mince meat of a thread.

Now - how much is "somewhat"? How do you quantify that? How do you quantify someone who agrees with two different and seemingly opposing POV's?

Here's an example:

I agree with Gene that nets suck. Only because the bozos who used to run the 247 DX Net totally trashed my chance of working Ludwig when he seemed to only want to activate ZS8 on that silly net. The bozos were self flaggelating and chest beating and bantering about each others signals and who had the bigger net control signal to "handle" Ludwig, that by the time they decided to let us poor slobs (aka "The Deserving") at Ludwig - the propagation was gone.

But - because DX Nets are allowed for DXCC credit - then I am good with that. Anyone can petition to change the rules - or better yet - not "opt in" to play if they don't like the rules. Hey - some of the entities on the list are really stupid and never should have been added, but I decided to play by the rules and accept that.

Rarely do I see any topic as black and white - because I might have been wrong for 30 years in my thinking and have a sudden "epiphany" - or - I might feel emotionally one way - but adhere to what the ARRL rules say about what is legal and what isn't.

And when I get a bit too "passionate" about a discussion on eHam - or on the air - or watch the silly stuff on the cluster, I step back, take a deep breath and laugh at myself for getting a little too excited about something that is just a hobby.

IMO Well said!
You think about life the same way I do.  I hope the event that bought you around to this way of thinking was not too bad.  I have found that only people who have experienced real problems in life understand not to get too serious about the minor stuff. 

73's
Robert


The older I have gotten the less I seem to know. For guidance, I listen to others and try to consider their POV - even if my gut level reaction is at first that they are wrong or I disagree. Many times - I have had to read and re-read threads here on the forum, and I'm glad I waited to post - because the way the threads were written - I got the wrong impression on first read. I very much prefer to meet in person - but I do really enjoy this forum - I like all of the different opinions. I have learned a lot, actually - things I never expected to learn.

I also have two "kids" - 21 and 17 - and they have told me for 21 years that I am wrong.

That and I watch far too many old Monty Python skits on YouTube . . . .
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WG5G
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« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2013, 06:05:40 PM »

Good evening to all, thought I would throw one last tidbit in. When I started dxing I was working at a 2-way shop, well there was this old ham working there, I enjoyed talking to him, one day as I was bragging about working a PY station he stopped me and said Dan if you want to be a dxer turn off the radio and study for the extra, along with that advice I will add this, to be a sucess at dxing I beleive you should strive to master all aspects including dx nets, but also cw, ssb, and digital, practice, improve you station and learn from others, I read this forum just about everyday but seldom respond, I have learned some things, been irritated at some subjects but its always entertaining, DONT FORGET DX IS, 73 DAN WG5G.
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NU1O
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« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2013, 06:16:29 PM »


I don't know what you mean by this and don't know how you could come up with such a statistic . . . .

Gene put out a topic for opinions and 23 forum members replied.  I used his numbers. 18 disagreed with him and 5 agreed.  That works out to 78%. 

This is not a very large forum with hundreds of regular posters. Another member and I estimate there are about 3 dozen regular posters so this topic had a higher turnout than the presidential election.

We regularly have elections in some of the cities and towns of this country were between 10% to 15% of eligible voters turnout to vote but the election results still count. Those who don't vote let those who do determine the results.  

Neither you nor I can divine the opinions of people who only read this forum but don't post messages and if you really thought this question was a big deal, I guess you should have cast your vote - while the polls were open.   Wink  

When Gene originally posed this question why didn't you tell him it was meaningless, in your view, if you feel so strongly about this?

The bottom line is a total of 23 voted and a 77% outcome is a landslide in political parlance.

I will try to comment on some of the other stuff you brought up but this was the "Home Opener" for the Red Sox today which is like a holiday for me, and Louisville and Michigan are about to tipoff.  

73,

Chris/NU1O





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W2IRT
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« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2013, 06:24:34 PM »

Good evening to all, thought I would throw one last tidbit in. When I started dxing I was working at a 2-way shop, well there was this old ham working there, I enjoyed talking to him, one day as I was bragging about working a PY station he stopped me and said Dan if you want to be a dxer turn off the radio and study for the extra, along with that advice I will add this, to be a sucess at dxing I beleive you should strive to master all aspects including dx nets, but also cw, ssb, and digital, practice, improve you station and learn from others, I read this forum just about everyday but seldom respond, I have learned some things, been irritated at some subjects but its always entertaining, DONT FORGET DX IS, 73 DAN WG5G.

Nothing I'd disagree with too strongly. A good DXer must be willing to do what is necessary to make a needed QSO. The only exception to that, in my un-humble opinion, is working off lists or nets if there's any other way to make the QSO. And unless the entity is normally uninhabited or activated only every decade or so, that's just not necessary. I'd hold off a few years for something like ZD9 or Trindade if it were net-only, but I wouldn't hesitate to do P5 or South Georgia or Crozet that way.
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NU1O
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« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2013, 06:30:17 PM »


IMO Well said!
You think about life the same way I do.  I hope the event that bought you around to this way of thinking was not too bad.  I have found that only people who have experienced real problems in life understand not to get too serious about the minor stuff. 

73's
Robert


Do you think there are any adults who have not experienced real problems?  Everybody carries a cross at some point in their life, some longer and further than others, but nobody gets a pass in my opinion.

73,

Chris/NU1O
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KY6R
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« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2013, 06:57:09 PM »


I don't know what you mean by this and don't know how you could come up with such a statistic . . . .

Gene put out a topic for opinions and 23 forum members replied.  I used his numbers. 18 disagreed with him and 5 agreed.  That works out to 78%. 

This is not a very large forum with hundreds of regular posters. Another member and I estimate there are about 3 dozen regular posters so this topic had a higher turnout than the presidential election.

We regularly have elections in some of the cities and towns of this country were between 10% to 15% of eligible voters turnout to vote but the election results still count. Those who don't vote let those who do determine the results.  

Neither you nor I can divine the opinions of people who only read this forum but don't post messages and if you really thought this question was a big deal, I guess you should have cast your vote - while the polls were open.   Wink  

When Gene originally posed this question why didn't you tell him it was meaningless, in your view, if you feel so strongly about this?

The bottom line is a total of 23 voted and a 77% outcome is a landslide in political parlance.

I will try to comment on some of the other stuff you brought up but this was the "Home Opener" for the Red Sox today which is like a holiday for me, and Louisville and Michigan are about to tipoff.  

73,

Chris/NU1O







I agreed with Gene that nets suck, but I also disagreed that as long as the ARRL allows net contacts for awards, then they are fine. I won't use them myself, but I don't look down on anyone who does.

You and Gene have a beef - so you turn it into a "Vote".

I don't vote in polls like that.

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AD9DX
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« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2013, 08:46:38 PM »

I am sad that this has turned into a pissing match. Much like the nets that some of us love to hate. I'll admit that I have used a "kind of sked" with one operator when I was first getting into CW it was with ST2AR. I had emailed him and told him that while his signal was very strong on my end, his code was very much too fast for me to copy. His reply was that if he heard me in a pile up he would listen for my call and reply to me at a more "reasonable" speed. A week later, I was able to work him and he dialed it back to me at a partly 15wpm.

I have never heard a DX net but would love to listen to one to hear what all the fuss is about. I don't like the idea of having a net controller decide who gets to work the DX, I would rather use my skill (or lack there of) to work the new one I need. 

But at the end of the day, the libertarian in me does out. If you don't like nets.... Don't use them.
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NU1O
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« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2013, 10:16:48 PM »

I am sad that this has turned into a pissing match. Much like the nets that some of us love to hate. I'll admit that I have used a "kind of sked" with one operator when I was first getting into CW it was with ST2AR. I had emailed him and told him that while his signal was very strong on my end, his code was very much too fast for me to copy. His reply was that if he heard me in a pile up he would listen for my call and reply to me at a more "reasonable" speed. A week later, I was able to work him and he dialed it back to me at a partly 15wpm

That just sounds like a normal QSO to me, not even remotely a "kind of sked" but I wouldn't care if you two had a time and frequency spelled out in the email and it was an actual sked. 

If a station is transmitting CW too fast you can send "QRS" and most will slow down. With ST2AR, or any DX station running a pileup, it's more difficult to get them to QRS than a one-on-one QSO obviously due to the pileup.  If the hobby doesn't get more young guys like you interested in CW it'll die out eventually so I'm happy to see you've learned it.  I also have a Begali key, the Sculpture, and Pietro Begali's keys are like pieces of art.

If you can learn to recognize your own call at 30 to 35 wpm, and it's not as hard as it sounds, you can work any DX station in a pileup because after the DX comes back to your call with your 599 report your reply is simply the report which is usually "599 TU."  You could store your call in M1 on your K3 and store the report in M2. For CW pileups I just hit the memory buttons.

I have never heard a DX net but would love to listen to one to hear what all the Qis about. I don't like the idea of having a net controller decide who gets to work the DX, I would rather use my skill (or lack there of) to work the new one I need. 

The ANZA Net, which means Australia, New Zealand, Africa, meets on 14.183 at 0515 UTC.  I've never heard so many stations on the net chasing one station that net control limited the number who could make a call but I don't check in weekly or even monthly. The lists are typically small (maybe a dozen stations) and everybody gets a shot. If you check in you stand a good chance of being the station many of the Pacific stations will call as DX so be prepared for that.  One night I had over 15 stations from all over the Pacific calling me one after another.  It's a lot of fun being the DX instead of the caller.

You may as well check into a very well run net if you want to see what the fuss is all about and the ANZA Net is very good one, IMO.

73 es gl,

Chris/NU1O
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K3NRX
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« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2013, 03:57:50 AM »

I have never heard a DX net but would love to listen to one to hear what all the Qis about. I don't like the idea of having a net controller decide who gets to work the DX, I would rather use my skill (or lack there of) to work the new one I need.  

REPLY: Obviously you have never heard a DX net, Chris. If you did, you would know that a net controler does not "decide" who gets to work the DX....Like it's an exclusive country club or secret organization or something...The net controller takes the list off of what he hears and if he/she hears no more they usually ask if there is anyone else that wants to be on the list....and if he/she can't hear any more, they will usually ask for any relays from the other net controllers on the freq...then the net control run the list and the stations decide who among the DX on the net they want to be spoon fed, er um sorry...want to work.....no fussing, no fighthing.....the DX that checks into the nets proabably don't want to deal with the mayhem that some people live for.....they figure, let the net controller handle that scene.....I seem to recall at one point and history, (and Geno, this will make your hair curl), that I actually ran a DX net for a while on 14.226.5, because the regulars weren't around...with my 100 watts and wet noodle....It was really kind of fun.....Much to our friends Geno, Pete, et al's happiness, there are not as many DX nets on the frequencies as there were 20 or 30 years ago it seems (maybe it seems that way to me because I havn't been on much).....but they are there....like it or not.....some of us like them, some of us don't.....the time has come to get over it and move on......again, can we PLEASE end beating this horse that is so, dead, it's carcas stinks?Huh....-PLEASE?Huh....

V
KA3NRX
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:25:44 AM by KA3NRX » Logged
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