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Author Topic: Some will do anything to work the DX  (Read 1349 times)
WD4ELG
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Posts: 869




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« on: April 07, 2013, 06:05:23 PM »

JT1CO, 18158 SSB.  He repeatedly said "listening up 18170."  Several hams said "out of band" in 18158, but JT1CO was not listening on that freq.

Sure enough, after the third time that he said "listening 18170" he got a call.  No, he got a BUNCH of calls.  From US hams who worked him.  I guess noone on 18170 said "out of band," because this went on for about 15 minutes today.

No question that those who did this knew they were not following the rules, but they wanted the DX anyway.  So much for ethics.
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AF3Y
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Posts: 3722




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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »

JT1CO, 18158 SSB.  He repeatedly said "listening up 18170."  Several hams said "out of band" in 18158, but JT1CO was not listening on that freq.

Sure enough, after the third time that he said "listening 18170" he got a call.  No, he got a BUNCH of calls.  From US hams who worked him.  I guess noone on 18170 said "out of band," because this went on for about 15 minutes today.

No question that those who did this knew they were not following the rules, but they wanted the DX anyway.  So much for ethics.

AND..... since only the band is noted on their card, etc.  ..........  The only one who will know what happened on their QSO is the guy they look at while shaving in the morning. I could go on...

73, Gene AF3Y
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WD4ELG
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Posts: 869




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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 06:37:31 PM »

Yep, and my mirror shows an ugly mug to begin with...I don't need an ugly conscience to go with it!  Cheesy
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K3NRX
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Posts: 1984


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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 06:40:44 PM »

Are there not still Official Observers out there???.....That is blatantly illegal.....One has to place blame on the DX station I think to an extent in this sense....If the DX is going to work state side in a split operation, he needs to know the state side band plan.....but still the state side stations need to know better too..their actionns should in no way shape or form be excused....where are the O Os?......not good at all....on either side of the ocean....

V
KA3NRX
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:44:07 PM by KA3NRX » Logged
VK3HJ
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Posts: 595




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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 07:02:03 PM »

I have observed similar behaviour a few months ago, with a couple of DXpeditions operating phone on 17 m. The DX was high in the band, and listening up. Many stations spilled above 18.168, and I even noted stations with emissions up as high as 18.175! Even with the VFO on 18.165 USB one is pushing the band limit. The responsibility lays firmly with the caller, but also with the DX to manage the pile. About the same time on 80 m, I noted some VK's calling an expedition as high as 3.805. In this case it was entirely the caller's responsibility for illegal out of band transmissions.
More recently, I have noted some DX calls at the top of the band and listening DOWN. Much better!
Perhaps we should all take on the role of Observer. Document alleged infringements, and file it away. Sometimes one makes an error. That can be forgiven. Some make a habit of it. That is inexcusable, and should be prosecuted. I had thought of a "Shame File" like Derryn Hinch used to run on his TV programme, but that could just turn into a slanging match and flame war that wouldn't help anybody.
73,
Luke VK3HJ
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AF5CC
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 07:30:24 PM »

I thought the 17m band was 18.068 to 18.168 worldwide.  Do some countries have additional frequencies on that band?

John AF5CC
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W6GX
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Posts: 2483




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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:35:05 PM »

I condemn the action but truthfully I've done it a few times by mistake.  It was unintentional.  This is especially true on the WARC bands and on the lower SSB band edges.  My radio prevents me from transmitting above the band edges.  I tested it and I tried to transmit on 18.170 and it wouldn't.  However it would let me transmit on 18.167.999 which would put me outside of the band.

If you want to start talking about ethics and conscience then take a look at the DX Code of Conduct.  To me the most sinful and shameful act is DQRM or deliberate QRM.  This is like stealing a QSO from another person.  Specifically I'm talking about if the DX op is asking for a W6 and a N4 stomps over the W6 to take the QSO, the N4 just stole a QSO from the W6.  To me this is far more unforgivable and the most sinful act.  Skeds and nets don't steal QSOs.  DQRM does.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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AF5CC
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 07:40:16 PM »

The worst is deliberate QRM when the station isn't even trying to work the DX, like sending repeated dits or something on the DXs frequency.  Those people must have an elevator that doesn't go to the top floor.

John AF5CC
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AF3Y
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Posts: 3722




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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 07:58:07 PM »


If you want to start talking about ethics and conscience then take a look at the DX Code of Conduct.  To me the most sinful and shameful act is DQRM or deliberate QRM.  This is like stealing a QSO from another person.  Specifically I'm talking about if the DX op is asking for a W6 and a N4 stomps over the W6 to take the QSO, the N4 just stole a QSO from the W6.  To me this is far more unforgivable and the most sinful act.  Skeds and nets don't steal QSOs.  DQRM does.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

"Takes the QSO"? What are you talking about? 

Sure, the N4 was calling out of turn.  Yep, this is QRM, but why would the DX work the N4, when calling for a W6? The DX was not running the pile very well, if he answered or completed a QSO with the QRMer. You may have heard this happen, but I cannot remember ever hearing a COMPLETED QSO like that.

I HAVE heard some DXers chastise the QRMer (rightfully so) and tell him to QRX and wait his turn. Cheesy

73, Gene AF3Y
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VK3HJ
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Posts: 595




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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 08:04:34 PM »

I thought the 17m band was 18.068 to 18.168 worldwide.  Do some countries have additional frequencies on that band?
John AF5CC

Not on this World, as far as I know. The WARC 79 bands as we know them are consistent across all three IARU regions. Local variations within the bands occur, such as the phone allocation on the 30 m band plan in Australia.
There is no excuse for out of band operation. Accurate frequency displays on everything built in the last three decades or so, provide adequate information to the operator. Maybe some people don't understand the fact that upper sideband emissions extend above the suppressed carrier frequency indicated on their transceiver?
My PowerSDR software will shut down my SDR transceiver if a frequency and mode selection would cause me to transmit out of band, but that can be bypassed easily enough. In fact I've had to change that option to be able to transmit on 475 kHz, a new allocation here. HRD still gives me an audible alarm when I cross band limits.
Deliberate QRM should be a Hanging Offence!
73,
Luke VK3HJ
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W6GX
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Posts: 2483




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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 08:31:21 PM »


If you want to start talking about ethics and conscience then take a look at the DX Code of Conduct.  To me the most sinful and shameful act is DQRM or deliberate QRM.  This is like stealing a QSO from another person.  Specifically I'm talking about if the DX op is asking for a W6 and a N4 stomps over the W6 to take the QSO, the N4 just stole a QSO from the W6.  To me this is far more unforgivable and the most sinful act.  Skeds and nets don't steal QSOs.  DQRM does.

73,
Jonathan W6GX

"Takes the QSO"? What are you talking about? 

Sure, the N4 was calling out of turn.  Yep, this is QRM, but why would the DX work the N4, when calling for a W6? The DX was not running the pile very well, if he answered or completed a QSO with the QRMer. You may have heard this happen, but I cannot remember ever hearing a COMPLETED QSO like that.

I HAVE heard some DXers chastise the QRMer (rightfully so) and tell him to QRX and wait his turn. Cheesy

73, Gene AF3Y

Gene,

What I described is something I hear on a daily basis.  Just go to any good sized pile up (i.e. VK9CZ) and see for yourself.  If the Op is calling for AF3 and an AF6 calls over you, the Op will take the AF6 if he's louder than you and if the Op didn't hear AF3Y on your second try.  The AF6 just stole a QSO from you.  Those folks calling out of turn have no conscience and they have lost my respect in every way.

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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AF5CC
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 08:37:38 PM »

I thought the 17m band was 18.068 to 18.168 worldwide.  Do some countries have additional frequencies on that band?
John AF5CC

Not on this World, as far as I know. The WARC 79 bands as we know them are consistent across all three IARU regions.

If that is so, and I am not arguing with you, why would JT1CO announce he us listening on 18.170?  Chak is a good operator, he should know where the edge of the band is.  Waiting for my 30m QSL to show up from him.  30m is sure a great band, wish I had the space and finances to put a 3 element monoband 30m yagi up at 100 feet or so.  Now that would be a blast!

73 John AF5CC   
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N2RJ
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 12:31:23 PM »

  30m is sure a great band, wish I had the space and finances to put a 3 element monoband 30m yagi up at 100 feet or so.  Now that would be a blast!

73 John AF5CC   

It absolutely is. I love 30 meters. Don't even need to turn on my amp to crush the pileups.
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N2RJ
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 12:39:12 PM »


I hear out of band operation in contests quite a lot. Mostly it is US Extra class ops operating on 7125-7127 LSB. Contest organizers don't seem to do much of anything about it, in fact a guy who I heard transmitting on 7125 for hours on end a few years ago went on to place in the top 10, no penalties from contest sponsors.

I hear some stations on the band edge on 15 and 20 every contest. Sometimes it' Europe and sometimes NA/USA. No penalties from contest sponsors. 

Another station in a recent contest decided to transmit out of band where I was listening to tell me to QSY because I was 2kc from his run frequency. I asked for their call, but they didn't ID, of course. So out of band operation and transmitting without ID. Wonderful. No penalties from contest sponsors as far as I know.

Then there are the kc cops who transmit out of band. Obviously they are Americans with restrictions on modes in different part of the band, but they don't ID of course. If they were legally operating in that part of the band (eg if they were in Canada) you'd think they'd be unafraid to ID. Again, nobody seems to care.

So it seems as though the great self policing radio service that is ham radio can't or doesn't even care to police itself anymore.
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W2IRT
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 12:49:39 PM »

30m is sure a great band, wish I had the space and finances to put a 3 element monoband 30m yagi up at 100 feet or so.  Now that would be a blast!

All I have is a rotatable dipole (part of a small WARC antenna) at 85' and 200W is enough to have me well over 300 countries in just 7 years.
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