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Author Topic: The Antenna Farm again  (Read 19957 times)
K1CJS
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Posts: 5993




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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 11:49:35 AM »

'BJM, unfortunately, "best way" doesn't mean the best way that you or anyone else thinks there is, it means the best way that the shipper (in this case) thinks HE has.  That means he chooses between methods where the total cost versus the delay in getting the package to you balances out--in HIS way of thinking.  One other thing, Priority mail shipping is just a ploy by the post office.  They put a fancy sticker on a fancy package and ship it the same way as first class shipments, and the shippers know that.  I'll bet that if shipped by priority mail, your package would have taken the same amount of time for the following reasons.

Priority mail is NOT overnight--or even second day shipping.  It may well take extra time--there is no 'delivery within' specified.  For those specifications you pay a lot more.  Believe me, I got the same sort of wake up you just got when I last received a 'Priority Mail' package through the mails.  I called the post office wondering about it and was told that if--and that's a big IF--there is a lot of packages going out to a certain area and the package is somewhat larger than can be carried, you may get that delivery before your regular mail delivery.  And that's the only 'priority' that that package gets--then I found out that priority mail ships with first class mail.  Then I was told that smaller packages usually just get put in with the regular mail delivery.  Why do you think it only costs a little more than first class?  (Hint:  You're paying for a brand name--and that's all.)

As to your query to Mr. Holbrook, shipping terms are shipping terms for everyone.  There are a lot of sellers who ship in the same manner as he did with the same information concerning shipping on their site.  Your only recourse is to pay the higher charge--or specify the exact shipping method, with the exact costs PLUS the shippers fees being billed to your credit card with the cost of your stuff--IF the seller will do that.  Be prepared for it to cost far more than a flat rate shipping charge--even if the shipping is only a little more.  Now you're paying for personalized service.  Hey, lesson learned, right?  (Just as I learned it with my shipment.)  Next time you'll know.  73!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 12:01:30 PM by K1CJS » Logged
K7RNO
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Posts: 279




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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2013, 01:18:23 PM »

Interesting, what you were told by your post office, 'cjs. I haven't asked mine these questions, so I cannot say anything about this. What I can say, however is this:

USPS.com, under their pricing tab, gives this information:
For my package from the antenna farm to me, dropped off at their post office on Mo Apr 15:
First Class, delivery on April 18 (3 days). Cost $2.58 plus tracking = $3.48 for me. A business might get it for less. Add to that the cost of the jiffy bag.
Priority Mail, delivery on April 17 (2 days). Cost for flat rate small box $5.15 including tracking. No cost for the box.

To point out some specifics regarding the order process with this vendor, I am copying and pasting what they offer on the order page:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shipping Method:
Please select the preferred shipping method to use on this order.
Flat Rate
$9.95 Best Way

United Parcel Service
$48.44 Next Day Air
$18.59 2nd Day Air
$14.00 3 Day Select
$9.90 Ground

United States Postal Service
We are unable to find a USPS shipping quote suitable for your mailing address and the shipping methods we typically use.
If you prefer to use USPS as your shipping method, please contact us for assistance.
(Please check that your Zip Code is entered correctly.)


Then there is a text box with this headline:
Special Instructions or Comments About Your Order
In this box, I requested what I had quoted earlier in this thread and Mr Holbrook acknowledged that fact by email with a curt "alright"

There is also a big fat red claim on his homepage, reading: "Enjoy low shipping rates as low as $1 & NEVER pay more than $9.95 shipping no matter how large the order!" Not sure how that corresponds with the options given above.

'cjs, I hear what you say about "best way". If this is the generally accepted interpretation, I must say that it is deceptive at best. A more honest version of it would read "we will screw you with shipping any way we can, now that we have your money".
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73,
aRNO
NAQCC #6870, SKCC #11131
AD6KA
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Posts: 2237




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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2013, 01:21:52 PM »

Quote
1st class from his shop to my home, with tracking, for this 6 oz envelope, would have cost me under $3.50. Through his business account it was probably less.


Not at all.
To get any price break on First Class mail he
would have to mail thousands of pieces at one time
all presorted. The level of sortation (Regional Sectional
Center, Local Delivery Office, Specific Delivery Route,
Or Delivery Route in Delivery Sequence) would determine
the price break.

Presort First Class price breaks are for huge companies
with huge mailings (State Farm, Geico, etc)
Ken  AD6KA
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K9XR
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Posts: 29




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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2013, 02:30:58 PM »

If you have an account with the P.O you get tracking for free and most of time a discount on services. I just checked for 6 ounces on a First Class Parcel and it would cost me $2.58 and there is no discount for doing First Class on line but tracking is free. I'm pretty sure he must have a USPS account. When I ship my packages I have the option of having the Label display the cost of postage or not displaying it. Usually I display it because a lot of people think we can ship this stuff for nothing. I am NOT referring to the OP because I do believe he paid too much for the service he received. OTOH I believe Priority says "2-3 days", but they don't always live up to it.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5993




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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2013, 04:23:42 AM »

...USPS.com, under their pricing tab, gives this information:
For my package from the antenna farm to me, dropped off at their post office on Mo Apr 15:
First Class, delivery on April 18 (3 days). Cost $2.58 plus tracking = $3.48 for me. A business might get it for less. Add to that the cost of the jiffy bag.
Priority Mail, delivery on April 17 (2 days). Cost for flat rate small box $5.15 including tracking. No cost for the box....

I understand what you're saying, but those delivery times (number of days) are still not guaranteed.  Again, from what the post office told me, the only 'priority' that your package will get is that it will be delivered quicker if they've got a vehicle going out with packages.  

Quote
To point out some specifics regarding the order process with this vendor, I am copying and pasting what they offer on the order page: ...

...United States Postal Service
We are unable to find a USPS shipping quote suitable for your mailing address and the shipping methods we typically use.
If you prefer to use USPS as your shipping method, please contact us for assistance.
(Please check that your Zip Code is entered correctly.)...

Most small businesses ship by UPS or by another 'package' company, not by the USPS.  That is how I read the statement "We are unable to find a USPS shipping quote suitable for your mailing address and the shipping methods we typically use."  He may well have went out of his way to ship USPS--at your request--as he indicated his company would on his statement.

Quote
...There is also a big fat red claim on his homepage, reading: "Enjoy low shipping rates as low as $1 & NEVER pay more than $9.95 shipping no matter how large the order!" Not sure how that corresponds with the options given above.

'cjs, I hear what you say about "best way". If this is the generally accepted interpretation, I must say that it is deceptive at best. A more honest version of it would read "we will screw you with shipping any way we can, now that we have your money".

Sorry, but now, with those sentences, you're sounding like a child stamping his foot because he can't get his way.  By your own admission, (one of your first posts) you indicated if he put the order in a zip bag and sent it out USPS, it would be OK.  That is exactly what he did!  He's going to use the way it seems it's best to him--and that will be the way that gets your package to you in a reasonable amount of time and at lowest cost to him.  All businesses would ship exactly the same way when the flat rate method is asked for!  

Quote
For shipping, I selected the "best way" option for $9.95 and suggested in the comments box that I won't mind receiving them in a jiffy bag by USPS, if that would go quicker.

Finally, as I read his shipping page, the least your package would have shipped for is UPS ground at a cost of $9.90, then the 'best way' method at $9.95.  Where is your basis for even asking for a refund on shipping?

Sorry, but as I see it, he did just as you asked--again, you didn't ask for Priority Mail--so you don't really have any basis to even request a refund, and your rant here is, for all intents and purposes, totally baseless.  73.  
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W5JON
Member

Posts: 163




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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2013, 09:56:46 AM »

Hi,

Over the years I have come to realize that some people, including some Hams, are really very cheap. However there are a couple things that amaze me about this thread.

1. That anyone would be offended enough to over the POSSIBLE $4.00 extra charge, to start a thread on the subject.
2. That so many (including myself) would take the time to comment on a POSSIBLE $4.00 extra charge, by a business that most likely made less than $3.00 on the $30.00 order.

After all, if you do not like the decision the business made regarding shipping, your option as a consumer is to simply take your future business elsewhere.

73,

John W5JON
 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 10:10:11 AM by W5JON » Logged
K7RNO
Member

Posts: 279




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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2013, 10:20:54 AM »

Quote
Most small businesses ship by UPS or by another 'package' company, not by the USPS.  That is how I read the statement "We are unable to find a USPS shipping quote suitable for your mailing address and the shipping methods we typically use."  He may well have went out of his way to ship USPS--at your request--as he indicated his company would on his statement.

There was a thread in this forum from some years ago in which the antenna farm was accused of shipping by Priority Mail (PM) instead of the ordered UPS service. The antenna farm explained their action with the fact that PM would reach the customer faster than the selected UPS service. I found that a laudable action by the antenna farm and it made me buck the trend and order from them in spite of the negative press. I can only blame myself for this bad decision.

Quote
you don't really have any basis to even request a refund, and your rant here is, for all intents and purposes, totally baseless.

Quote
Over the years I have come to realize that some people, including some Hams, are really very cheap. However there are two things that amaze me about this thread.
1. That anyone would be offended enough to over the POSSIBLE $4.00 extra charge, to start a thread on the subject....

OKAY, FORGIVE ME FOR YELLING, BUT OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD SO FAR. MY GRIPE IS NOT A MISSING REFUND, DID YOU HEAR ME? I REPEAT, MY GRIPE IS NOT A MISSING REFUND. MY ISSUE IS THAT A CIVILIZED (IF CRITICAL) QUESTION WAS NOT ANSWERED BUT RESPONDED TO WITH DIATRIBES AND INSULTS. HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS BEFORE IT IS HEARD?

Quote
[the other thing that amazes me] about this thread
2. That so many (including myself) would take the time to comment on a POSSIBLE $4.00 extra charge, by a business that most likely made less than $3.00 on the $30.00 order.

Yes. Amazing indeed, in light of the fact that all you did was reading something into my posts that were not my point. Your own projections?

I have said what I wanted to say. I now leave the further direction of this thread up to you (you in general). Post what you want, I cannot see a reason to respond anymore as I don't know what else I could add to make my point any clearer. Thank you for listening and you all have a great day.

73
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73,
aRNO
NAQCC #6870, SKCC #11131
W5JON
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2013, 12:30:41 PM »

"BJM"

If you can refrain from your rant and read, you will notice that the word "REFUND" is not contained in my post.

My advise to you is:  When you finally realize you have dug yourself into a deep hole, stop digging, or you will only look more foolish.

73 and DX,

John W5JON  
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5993




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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2013, 03:53:23 AM »

...When I asked him for his underlying thoughts of sending it this way, neglecting what I had requested, and when I audaciously asked if, maybe, a refund was coming my way instead, I got this rant....

Wow!  Sorry I mentioned what YOU had mentioned in your first post.

But the fact remains that you still did business with him even though --in your own admission by your posts--you KNEW his cheapest shipping method was going to cost $9.90!

You have NO cause to complain.  BTW, your AES thread rants about high shipping too.  I see a pattern here...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 03:57:28 AM by K1CJS » Logged
WY4J
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Posts: 110




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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 02:51:59 PM »

KG7BJM, Sorry but I have to agree with the majority. Therefore, I believe that both parties to this transaction acted in a sophomoric manner and neither is correct.

Yes, you pressed the button and selected the shipping option. That this guys seems very rude and obnoxious in his response to you, yes again. There is a certain customer service mindset you need to have in order to be successful or even stay in business. Don't believe The Antenna Farm subscribes to that mindset. Since I have never done business with this merchant and he seem to sell what everyone else sell, I don't think I would be inclined to ever use his services. I don't think I would ever leave myself open as you did but again, if he used to abusing his clientele I don't believe I will ever provide him with the opportunity.
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N1CX
Member

Posts: 121




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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »

Here's an idea.....instead of prejudging someone by hearsay experience from someone else why not pony up and try the guy next time you need something. Then you can form your own opinion instead of someone else doing it for you

LIGHTBULB

lol

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K1CJS
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Posts: 5993




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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2013, 05:46:50 AM »

You don't even have to do business with the company--a simple reading of the website speaks for the company in question.  Also, 'flat rate' shipping is almost a universal concept to most hams.  I think some people would still be complaining if the company was a few miles away and the owner dropped off the package the same day its contents were ordered--on his way home!  73!
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WA8MEA
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Posts: 258


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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 11:30:21 AM »

OK, many of you are missing an important point here; The U.S. Postal Service AND UPS.

What you hear from the lame street media every time postage goes up, is that "the price of a stamp will be going up".  They NEVER tell you how much package shipping and DX shipping is going up.

Last January 21, 2013, the prices for USPS SKYROCKETED!  A 40% average increase across the board on parcels!  

Parcel post is a non-issue, since they keep the price just a nickel or dime below Priority Mail.  There is no such thing as First Class after you get above a few ounces in weight.  It automatically becomes Priority Mail.

Since January 21, 2013, I have had to turn away DX orders because it costs more to ship the customer my antenna than the price of certain antennas!  I had to turn away an Australian customer last week because the shipping was around $40 for a 3 pound package!  Earlier this week, a German ham said no thanks... after he learned the $40 antenna he ordered would cost $23 to ship!  If you Google further, you will find that the USPS is literally driving some mail order companies out of business because of their horrific price increases.

Now, regarding UPS: Had you had the connectors placed in a "bag" envelope, your connectors would have poked through, or had been dented/smashed/crushed, etc.  Then you would be on here discussing how The Ant Farm didn't ship it "the best way".  BTW, UPS pricing isn't much better UNLESS you do thousands of dollars worth of shipping with them every year, and then you qualify for quantity discounts.

Many of you have no idea what we are facing out here in the ham business world.  From the new Obamacare taxes, to possible 50 state sales tax collections the Senate took up this week, to the huge price increases and collusion between the USPS, UPS and FedEx... it may be time for some of us to just call it a career.

After 25 years, I am seriously considering throwing in the towel on December 31st, 2013.

BTW, does anyone want to ask why the USPS is spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on "Secret Shoppers" like Bare International ? ? ? ?  

http://www.baidata.com/custom/client_files/profiles/USPSGUIDELINESLANDINGPAGE-12941.pdf

73, Bill
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WI8P
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Posts: 260




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« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2013, 09:56:25 AM »

Forgive the newbie, but here's my perspective: Judging from some of the responses I've seen the OP give to members here, I have to wonder how he behaved during the initial conversation.  The posted responses here are all I have to go on, since I wasn't there when the conversation took place.  But based on these responses, I'm siding with AF on this matter.  Could they have been more up front on what $9.95 gets you?  Yes, but the time to ask that question is before you order, not after. 

As a side note, most shipping costs are based on the actual shipping cost and the labor to provide it, including packaging, labeling, etc.  With that in mind, I don't see an issue with the mailing cost either.

Go ahead and flame on me - I'm not fireproof, but flame resistant.  Grin 
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K1CJS
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 05:40:52 AM »

After reflecting on this thread, I notice that one other thing wasn't mentioned.  The attitude that the complainer displayed when he first called the shipper.  One thing that would be apparent is simply this--If the person who called up a business displayed an openly hostile attitude from the start, the businessman may well be inclined to be just as hostile and dismissive in his answer.

If, on the other hand, a caller is polite and is simply asking a question, the businessman may well be inclined to be polite and civil in turn.

I have little doubt that the originator of this thread called up with a bad attitude already--simply because of the way he posted here.
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