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Author Topic: Echo on headset  (Read 2039 times)
KD8TZC
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Posts: 67




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« on: April 18, 2013, 04:43:02 AM »

I'm a newer ham, so I'm looking for an Elmer to give me some advice.  When I send audio and I listen on my headset, I can sort of hear myself in the headset.  Is this RF in the shack that might be causing this?  My Ham shack is in the basement with the coax running to the attic where my antenna's are (three floors above).  Would an unbalanced line without a balun be the possible cause for this?

I used to use a 10M dipole with a 1:1 Balun and have recently switched to a G5RV that does not have a balun.  I don't recall hearing myself or the echo with the dipole.  Just curious how I can improve this.

Also, if I hook the rig up to an external speaker, I will hear the echo as well.  How can I improve my setup.

I do have a grounding wire on all my equipment that goes to a grounding rod in my basement (builder had actually installed one when he poured the basement).

Thanks,

John
KD8TZC
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John - KD8TZC
AA4PB
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Posts: 12688




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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 05:43:55 AM »

First, make sure the radio does not have a transmit monitor function that has been accidentally turned on. Second, transmit into a dummy load. If it's okay on a dummy load then it is an RF issue. If its RF then a choke on the feed line may help. Do you have the problem on all bands, or just one or two?
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KD8TZC
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Posts: 67




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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 06:08:58 AM »

I will double check the radio on the transmit button and also the dummy load (I should have thought of that myself).  As far as what bands, I am only transmitting on 10M as that is all I am allowed on with voice at this time (I'm a Tech class) so I have no way of testing the other bands.

Thanks for the tips and I will check the items out as I want to get this resolved... very annoying.

John
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John - KD8TZC
KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 06:32:18 AM »

You might shed more light and get better resolution to your problem if you were to tell us the make and model of the radio. 

That way, someone familiar with the features, problems, if any, etc. can possibly give you some very specific answers.


73
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W8JX
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Posts: 5477




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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 06:32:59 AM »

You did not mention what rig you have but it sounds like you have the monitor function on rig enabled. It always you to hear transmitted audio and usually there is a delay of a several milliseconds or so and that can cause a echo of sorts in headset.
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KD8TZC
Member

Posts: 67




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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 06:37:18 AM »

Sorry about that, yes it would make sense to add that.  I have the Kenwood TS 440S rig.  I don;t even know if it has a monitor function (never saw anything to that effect in the manual).
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John - KD8TZC
AA4PB
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Posts: 12688




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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 06:38:19 AM »

If it is the monitor function then the audio in the headset should be clear. If its RF then most likely the audio you hear will be very raspy and distorted.
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KE3WD
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 06:43:19 AM »

You mention "headset" - and not head"phones" - Is this one of the units that contain both the MIC and the Earphones in one headset? 

Is this headset designed for use with a transceiver? 

Or is it a headset designed for some other purpose, being pressed into service with the amateur transceiver. 

The reason I ask is that I have encountered situations where someone has wired one of those headsets designed for computer or perhaps cellphone use to a ham rig and had the in-ear monitoring phenomenon such as you describe happen.  I get called in to torubleshoot and find that the wiring inside the cable of this type of headset is often not shielded between the earphone lines and mic line.  The amount of capacitance between the paralleled wires is enough to conduct the driven earphone audio AC into the mic's input line. 

Often is impractical to try attaching your own shielded lines to such a headset, the answer there is to find a better quality headset made for radio comms and use that. 


73
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KE3WD
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 06:45:19 AM »

BTW  -- "Echo"  -- Unless what you hear is delayed in time from the original, meaning that you talk, there is a delay in time and then you hear what you said, then it is not termed an "echo" in the audio game.

At the moment, I'm thinking that this is more likely a case of audio "Crosstalk".


73
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KD8TZC
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Posts: 67




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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:50:16 AM »

Yes, they are headphones (Sony MDR-V6 Studio Headphones). 

Crosstalk vs Echo... not really sure... all I know is I can hear myself (faintly) on the headphones when I transmit.  Same with the external speaker (which is nothing more than a Radio with an audio input that I run the audio from the rig to - from the Ext Speaker jack on the back of the rig).
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John - KD8TZC
KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 06:59:39 AM »

Try transmitting with the drive turned all the way down in SSB, or better yet, into a Dummy Load with a very short jumper to radio antenna jack and nothing else. 

If you still hear your Crosstalk (which is what this IS) then you can safely rule out RF being the culprit.  It likely is not RF as that would also be distorted in the headphones as well. 

Try this -  leave the headphone side connected, disconnect the Mic input from the headset and use another mic to modulate the radio (such as the original handheld mic or any other separated mic you have that will work with the radio).  Talk into the separated Mic and listen at the same time via the headset.   When you don't hear yourself that way, you have isolated the problem now, which would point the finger squarely at the mic/headset and nothing else. 

These headphones were not designed to be used in the ham radio environment, needless to say.  It may require a bit of internal modification to the headset to solve the problem. 


73
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KD8TZC
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Posts: 67




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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 07:33:12 AM »

Okay, I will try all that.  So really dumb question then, but what causes the cross talk?  I see people using all kinds of headphones that were designed more for audio with Ham, and really never gave it much thought.
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John - KD8TZC
K1WJ
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Posts: 451




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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 09:02:31 AM »

Easy: Since your a Tech. go back to the 10m dipole - Fixed. 73 K1WJ Grin
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KD8TZC
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Posts: 67




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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 09:19:55 AM »

Sounds more like a "sit down and shut up, we don't want to be bothered by a Tech" comment to me.  The obvious question though is what is causing this to happen.  Yes, I can easily go back to the 10M dipole, and more than likely I will do that (although I seem to recall that I had the same issue with it on the external speaker) but what causes it. 

I'll take some of the comments above and try and isolate the source.

KD8TZC
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John - KD8TZC
K1WJ
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Posts: 451




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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 09:30:14 AM »

OK, did not mean to make you feel bad - are you using ladder line or coax with G5RV?
If coax at radio, about 6-8ft from radio - take coax & put 10-12 turns around a 4.5 inch form to create a choke - I think this may help. 73 K1WJ Cool
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