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Author Topic: Rude and inconsiderate operating practices  (Read 2775 times)
KG8JF
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« on: April 18, 2013, 10:05:34 AM »

Yesterday, while trying to work YB0NFL, Indonesia, I incountered some very rude operating practices.  I made my call to the station and I think he tried to come back to me.  When the other stations heard that he was having trouble with my callsign they immediately jumped in and started giving their call.  This pretty well precluded his ability to hear me.  never would the people stop calling long enough for him to hear my complete call.  I gave him a 53 and sent him a card via the bureau.

I did not try to pursue the contact any further and went on about tuning around the band.  I notice it quite often that people will still be calling while the dx is trying establish a contact with another station.  To me this is just plain rude.  Shut up and try again, he might hear you the next time.
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W2IRT
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 10:29:20 AM »

Yeah, I've heard it before and it's disgusting. All part of the coarseness that's infested the bands in the last 10-15 years and getting worse by the day. I can see it if the DX can't get your call after a half-dozen tries and I've had it happen to me when I'm running EU piles (guys will swoop down when I'm having trouble with a weak station).
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
N6PSE
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 10:40:04 AM »

I think the behavior in pileups has gotten much worse in the past few years. Recently, I was listening to a well managed pileup of a South Pacific DX station. This DX was not ultra rare and the SSB operator was doing a fine job. He was split, listening up 5-10.  I was listening to him and also tuning through his pileup. I could not help but notice that no matter what station he came back to, a well known and well respected DXer/DXpeditioner continued to call him despite the fact that his call in no way was anything near to what the DX operator was replying to. I just could not believe it!

I cannot help but think that some of the recent awards like the Challenge and Marathon awards are the motivating factors for Operators to behave in this manner. Why else would a honor roll guy be seeking a run of the mill South Pacific entity in this fashion.  This is all so silly just to rack up more points.
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KC5GB
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 11:26:56 AM »

I agree with N6PSE's comment: 
"I cannot help but think that some of the recent awards like the Challenge and Marathon awards are the motivating factors for Operators to behave in this manner."
You used to be able to have a chat with non-rare DX.  Now everyone outside the lower 48 always seem to have some level of pile up. 
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AF3Y
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 11:30:19 AM »

I think the behavior in pileups has gotten much worse in the past few years. Recently, I was listening to a well managed pileup of a South Pacific DX station. This DX was not ultra rare and the SSB operator was doing a fine job. He was split, listening up 5-10.  I was listening to him and also tuning through his pileup. I could not help but notice that no matter what station he came back to, a well known and well respected DXer/DXpeditioner continued to call him despite the fact that his call in no way was anything near to what the DX operator was replying to. I just could not believe it!

I cannot help but think that some of the recent awards like the Challenge and Marathon awards are the motivating factors for Operators to behave in this manner. Why else would a honor roll guy be seeking a run of the mill South Pacific entity in this fashion.  This is all so silly just to rack up more points.

An interesting post, Paul.  Several years ago, an old ham friend of mine, now SK, told me that he heard almost exactly the same type of garbage (better names for it exist...) from a very well known DXer and published author.

73, Gene AF3Y  
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N5MOA
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 11:37:42 AM »

I could not help but notice that no matter what station he came back to, a well known and well respected DXer/DXpeditioner continued to call him despite the fact that his call in no way was anything near to what the DX operator was replying to. I just could not believe it!

I cannot help but think that some of the recent awards like the Challenge and Marathon awards are the motivating factors for Operators to behave in this manner. Why else would a honor roll guy be seeking a run of the mill South Pacific entity in this fashion.  This is all so silly just to rack up more points.


I don't know who you heard, but I've heard the same thing, more than once. Well know perhaps, I'd leave off the "well respected" part.

Surprising, to say the least.
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W6GX
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 11:49:04 AM »

Why else would a honor roll guy be seeking a run of the mill South Pacific entity in this fashion.

I think it has more to do with the personality of the person than his accomplishments.  I believe those deliberate QRMers are the impatient type.  They just don't have the patience to wait for their turn.

I'm also seeing the same type of behavior (I call it 'stomping') in contests.  The DX station is calling for a W6 and another very strong station (possibly a contest station) with a callsign nothing close to a W6 comes in and steals a QSO from me.  Come to think of it a contest is just a stomping contest Cheesy  You can't find a clear frequency to call CQ?  Just find a weak station and setup camp 1kc beside him Cheesy

73,
Jonathan W6GX
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N4KC
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 01:39:13 PM »

Man, it is frustrating!  I respect N6PSE's opinion about how much worse it is lately.  He has certainly been on the other end of those pile-ups more than I.  Still, I've been at this for a long time and there has always been a fair share of LIDs out there.

Frankly, I think the biggest contributor to LID-dom is DX spotting.  I love 'em and use 'em all the time since I have limited operating time.  However, spots obviously attract a much bigger crowd to a frequency than in the old days, when people had to tune around, looking for the DX or what amounted to a pile-up.  Now, many who can barely hear the DX station will continue calling, hoping their call sign will pop out of the sizzle, unaware the guy may be trying to work somebody that is getting obliterated by the incessant blind hollering.

I believe the DX station can help control this by continuing to try to make the contact, even if it takes ten minutes or longer, while announcing why.  Those calling will soon realize they cannot bully their way into a contact.  On the other hand, if the DX gives up too quickly and works some of the loudmouths, he sends a message that it is okay to do whatever you have to do to get the QSO. 

I love the DX ops who say, "W9LID, your call is not even close to K6-question-mark.  You will never be in my log so long as you continue to call over the station I am trying to work.  Now, K6-question-mark, please try again."

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
(Author of the new book RIDING THE SHORTWAVES:
EXPLORING THE MAGIC OF AMATEUR RADIO)
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N7SMI
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 03:59:33 PM »

I believe the DX station can help control this by continuing to try to make the contact, even if it takes ten minutes or longer, while announcing why.  Those calling will soon realize they cannot bully their way into a contact.  On the other hand, if the DX gives up too quickly and works some of the loudmouths, he sends a message that it is okay to do whatever you have to do to get the QSO. 

I love the DX ops who say, "W9LID, your call is not even close to K6-question-mark.  You will never be in my log so long as you continue to call over the station I am trying to work.  Now, K6-question-mark, please try again."

ABSOLUTELY! These folks wouldn't behave this way if the DX didn't let them get away with it. If the DX laid down the law and commanded order in his/her pileup, the rude behavior would subside - at least for that pileup.
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K0IZ
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 05:51:49 PM »

Don, I think you are correct regarding the spotting clusters.  Once spotted, someone doesn't need to actually hear the DX to call.  I suspect that much of the calling on top of others, or even the DX station, is because the caller can't hear.
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W9KDX
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 06:36:37 PM »

I have only been at it a short while, but all the rude and unprofessional behavior has just about made DXing something I want nothing more to do with.  I do it for fun and won't apply for any rewards and I think from here on I will just work to hear the station rather than add to my frustration listening to the creeps and jerks in the pile up. 

I spent years and years without a license and just hearing the far away stations was good enough.

Too bad that a piece of paper from the ARRL has done so much to ruin what used to be an enjoyable experience.
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Sam
W9KDX
N0IU
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 07:16:46 PM »

I will check out DX Summit and if I can even find the station that was spotted, I will listen for about 30 seconds which is plenty of time to decided just how bad I want that country in my log. Usually by the time a DX station hits the spotting network, its pretty much all over by then.

Sure, it took a while, but I made mixed DXCC just by spinning the big knob and seeing what was out there and not relying too heavily on spotting networks.

I just wish more people would familiarize themelves with the DX Code of Conduct: http://dx-code.org/
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W2IRT
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 07:26:08 AM »

I'm with Paul on this one. The Challenge, Marathon and Clublog Greenies have changed DXing forever, but then Skimmer and the RBN have taken things to a new level. Now, as a station who can hear reasonably well and put a decent signal into the aether I'm not too annoyed since I can get through 90% of the pileups. But I feel for the guys with a wire and a hundred watts, that's for sure. If I were just getting into DXing now I think it would be a far more daunting task to hit 200 on both CW and Phone than it was for me to do starting in 2001.

The real winners in this game are Ameritron, Alpha, Acom, Command Technologies, THP, Force-12, SteppIR, Optibeam, Palstar and a number of tower installers.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll.
VK3HJ
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 08:05:19 AM »

Don, I think you are correct regarding the spotting clusters.  Once spotted, someone doesn't need to actually hear the DX to call.  I suspect that much of the calling on top of others, or even the DX station, is because the caller can't hear.

This is my experience too. The number of times I've been working a nice steady pile, and suddenly all these callers appear like a swarm of flies. When some of the louder callers are called, they don't respond. On occasion, I've found it particularly irritating when on 160 m with short windows of opportunity to have these blind callers waste your time, and genuine callers lose the chance to make a QSO.
If a station I'm working asks if I'd like to be spotted, I usually ask them not to!
It might be a useful policy to dig out the weaker stations and ignore the louder ones. The serial pests need to be told off, but if they can't hear you anyway, this may be a waste of time too!
Another way to thin out the callers is to spend some time chatting with each station. That way the annoying ones who just want a "5nn" QSO lose interest and go away.
Ultimately, it is up to the operator at the sharp end to manage the pile, but it takes steely resolve, discipline and endurance. It starts to sound more like a fight than fun!
73,
Luke VK3HJ
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AF3Y
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2013, 10:38:36 AM »


Another way to thin out the callers is to spend some time chatting with each station. That way the annoying ones who just want a "5nn" QSO lose interest and go away.
73,
Luke VK3HJ

OR..... they will get pissed and put a carrier on your freq. Or, whatever other sort of jamming they might think of....... Or............. Huh

73, Gene AF3Y
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