Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Anan 100/D  (Read 61585 times)
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




Ignore
« on: April 19, 2013, 11:36:04 AM »

I thought that it might be nice to start a new thread about the new
Anan radios that have started coming out. The other thread had several
interesting posts about them that might not be found by someone wanting
info on the new radios.
   Tim mentioned that there are some differences between the Anan 100D and
the new Flex 6000 Series Radios. From some of the reading I have done the most
obvious difference (well, besides the fact that the Anan 100/D are currently shipping)
is the Flex 6000 Series radios are fully contained radios that only need a computer
or other network enabled device, to display and interact with, the radio. All of the actual
processing is done within the Flex 6000 radios. The networked enabled device(s) simply
offer an interface for the radio and sends and receives commands from the display device
to the radio itself. SmartSDR is considered a "thin client" application in that it uses very
little resources on the device in which it is running. It is similar to a web browser.
In theory, any network enabled device, like a computer, smartphone or tablet,with
the right interface capable of sending the proper commands to the 6000 radio, operate
the 6000 Series Radios. That is quite a big difference from Flex's current crop of radios
which rely on the PC to do all the processing as well as the presentation (interface).
  The Anan radios are very PC dependent, similar to the older Flex radios. BUT, have much
greater capability than the older Flex Radios do. The Anan radios need the host PC to do a
lot of processing. That is why they require a fairly hefty PC. (processing wise)
 But, even at that, the price difference, including having to use a good PC with plenty of
processing power, it is still cheaper to use an Anan radio.
  Another thing that I consider a plus for the Anan, is the fact that the software is open source.
SmartSDR is not, and will not, be open source. Flex Radio Systems has stated that they will
offer developers an API to use to develop software to interact with the new 6000 Series, with
other devices. (which is a good thing) But, the will not be allowing outside developers access
to the source code for the internal firmware of the radio itself. Which is probably a good thing.
 So, as Tim stated in the other thread, each person considering either radio, should do some
research and take into consideration the differences between the two brands of radio and the
type of support each will offer.
  As much as I would love to have a Flex 6500 radio, (or if I win the lottery the 6700) I cannot
see spending almost double the amount of money, depending on which radio you choose, compared
to the Anan radios. If Flex were to lower the prices of the new radios, after production ramps up  and
sales (hopefully) take off, then I might feel differently. Or if they were to come out with a lower priced
radio than the 6500 (say without the autotuner) that had a few less abilities, but, was still better than
the 3000 or 5000, then that would be another thing to consider.
  As someone has mentioned in the past, SDR radios, at least in the ham community, is still an
evolving technology and the more that come on the market, the better quality and prices will be.
james
WD5GWY
 
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 03:28:43 PM »

Looks like there isn't an ExtIO dll for it yet, that will open some nice doors for it as far as for tend software goes.  cuSDR looks interesting, not sure about features on that package, still digging.  I did send the info Apache sent to WoodBoxRadio to see if they plan to support these radios.

The yahoo group has people reporting interesting issues like connectors being reversed, mic gain issues, and fan noise reports.  Not too bad for such a new radio and it looks like Apache is responding appropriately.

Maybe Tim can speak to his Anan 10 experience.  I looked at his video on his site, sounded like the radio has great audio. 

Interesting so far!
Logged

K3GM
Member

Posts: 1758




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 03:30:08 PM »

James, my friend and I are each burning in i5 PC's in preparation of owning either the ANAN-10 or the -100.  We are going to take a look at them at Dayton next month.  But I can't seem to find band by band TX IMD specs for either unit. Do you or anyone have test data that would cover this?  Poor IMD figures are what turned me away from the Flex-1500, and we're hoping that the Apache units turn in better figures.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 04:05:56 PM by K3GM » Logged
WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 04:38:14 PM »

James, my friend and I are each burning in i5 PC's in preparation of owning either the ANAN-10 or the -100.  We are going to take a look at them at Dayton next month.  But I can't seem to find band by band TX IMD specs for either unit. Do you or anyone have test data that would cover this?  Poor IMD figures are what turned me away from the Flex-1500, and we're hoping that the Apache units turn in better figures.
 No, the only Tx IMD data that they have is listed in the User's Manual for the Anan 100D.
And it only shows the numbers for 20 meters. As  ZINKI would say, "anyone can cherry
pick IMD numbers and present only the best numbers". That may not be an exact quote, to see
 his exact response, look in the Amplifier Forum under the thread " Suggestions for a 100 Watt Class amplifier for a FLEX-1500?"
  If I remember correctly the Tx IMD number they stated was 43db for 20 meters. Well, even
the Flex 1500 will do that! The ARRL's testing labs showed the worst Tx IMD numbers for the
Flex 1500 was on 40 meters (one of my favorite bands wouldn't you know!) and on other bands
it was much better.
So, like a lot of other companies, Apache Labs only presents the best numbers and not all of
them. Since the Anan radios use 12 volt FETS in the PA section, I am guessing that the readings
won't be a lot better than most Amateur radios of today.
  One thing in their favor and it may help quite a bit, is there are several developers in their
user's community, that are working on Adaptive PreDistortion software to be used in the firmware of the Anan radios that might help improve Tx IMD quite a bit. It will take someone with a lot
more understanding of the technology behind Adaptive PreDistortion to say how well that may
or may not work. Not having yet(knowingly) worked someone with one of the Anan radios, I cannot say how their signal would appear on the received end. (using my Flex 1500 and PowerSDR)
  Apache Labs does respond to inquiries, so they might answer an email regarding that question.
Also, one of the main developers of the hardware monitors their Yahoo Group as well. You could post the question there. OR, ask them at Dayton! (lucky devil! Someday I'm going to make Dayton too)
james
WD5GWY

  

« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 04:42:50 PM by WD5GWY » Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 06:21:54 PM »

James, my friend and I are each burning in i5 PC's in preparation of owning either the ANAN-10 or the -100.  We are going to take a look at them at Dayton next month.  But I can't seem to find band by band TX IMD specs for either unit. Do you or anyone have test data that would cover this?  Poor IMD figures are what turned me away from the Flex-1500, and we're hoping that the Apache units turn in better figures.

Food for thought on the i5 CPUs, and CPUs in general.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2400+%40+3.10GHz

The CPU chosen makes a huge difference.  Take a look at the i7 on the top of that chart verses the i5 on that chart.

The Hamzilla article on my site may be of interest to some building PCs for SDRs like this that require beefy boxes.

One can get those 3930s for around $500 and couple it with a nice SSD drive and some fast DDR on a ASUS x79 board for not much more than one will spend on a commercial PC costing more with half the specs.  That's takes you from a CPU ranked around 150th to one ranked 13th.  In Turbo mode mine scores almost 15,000 using the same benchmark software and consistently scores in the 14,000s.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 06:30:08 PM by NI0Z » Logged

N9RO
Member

Posts: 124


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »

Being an experimenter my operating habits are probably not typical?  All my CW is done via the keyboard (has been since the late 70's when I started doing keyboard CW using a KIM board) so the much debated turnaround delay is not a big issue for me.  My audio is often times produced using a $1.99 mic from eBay (it gets good reports).  I use this low cost mic on the ANAN, I just simply plugged it into the mic jack set the levels in PSDR and used the space bar for my PTT (PowerSDR mRX) nothing else needed to be done.  CW reports have been good and when testing using the RBN output appears to be in the neighborhood to what PSDR say's it is.  Have employed it on WSPR 20 meters and again no problem.  The WSPR SNR readings I have been getting between the  ANAN and the Flex 5000 are so close at this time I would not claim one is getting any better readings than the other.
 
The ANAN-10 is quiet I don't know it is on, but at times I have so much Cisco equipment running in my Ham Center you would not hear it anyway.  I will not have a switcher supplying power to any of my SDRs so these linear supplies with their fans add to the high level of room noise.  My limited experience with the ANAN so far has me feeling good regarding the software support.  For example, a new release of PowerSDR mRX was released and a few noticeable bugs were reported, they were fixed in 24 hours and then in the next 24 hours another release was put out with some minor fixes along with an enhancement. My ultimate goal once I have all my radios converted to LAN devices and everything reasonably integrated (no converters no Skype etc) is to have all this crap stuck in my Ham Center and then simply operate everything via IP from a nice clean desktop or in my wheelchair using a mobile device anywhere in the house or next to the pool, I can now realistically see that reality in the near future.  These are truly exciting times for us experimenters.   

I cannot comment on the some of the confusion regarding the ANAN documentation because I have not experienced it firsthand yet.  Perhaps this little bit of information will be of value to some of you?

Tim  N9RO
Logged

Real techies don't use knobs.
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 07:49:13 PM »

Being an experimenter my operating habits are probably not typical?  Perhaps this little bit of information will be of value to some of you?

Tim  N9RO


Yes, I look forward to your experience with the 100.  Thanks for sharing!  I am growing fonder of the idea of a networked radio.  I am thinking of moving my shack out of the basement and converting one of our rooms to an office/studio/shack.  It will likely take me a few years to be to the point where I can transition.

Do you run any power in your setup?  Any RFI issues with your Flex or the 10?  The idea of having some isolation by virtue of network is somewhat intriguing as well.

Thanks again!
Logged

KC9XG
Member

Posts: 18




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 05:21:22 AM »

I am using an I3 dual core processor @3ghz, 6mb of ram and Win7 64 bit to run OpenHPSDR PowerSDR 3.0.8.0 and an ANAN-10 (OpenHPSDR Hermes transceiver with an Apache Labs 10 watt Filter/PA board).  The Win7 resource manager shows PowerSDR using about 9% of CPU cycles with a sample rate of 384khz and 2 receivers running.  You don't need much of a computer to get good perfomance with these radios.  If you drop the sample rate back to 48khz, the CPU ultilization drops to around 3% with the same I3.

The OpenHPSDR developers came up with a way to stitch 3 virtual receivers together to provide 1.1mhz receive bandwidth.  A sample rate of 384khz therefore gives RX1 pandadapter a bandwidth of about 1.1mhz, and RX2 panadpater has a bw of 384khz.  Dropping the sample rate to 48khz gives RX1 about 120khz and RX2 48khz.

Using a sample rate of 384khz and 2 receivers results in a receive data stream of about 87mbs on my ethernet network.  No issues with audio dropping out even while browsing and emailing etc.  Of course, no drivers to load, DPC's to worry about etc with Ethernet.  Love it.

   The OpenHPSDR developers are hard at work on providing the Hermes transceiver design with Gigabit Ethernet.  Once this is released, the ANAN-100D with the 2nd ADC can really shine. 

Bill KC9XG



Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 02:39:44 PM »

I am using an I3 dual core processor @3ghz, 6mb of ram and Win7 64 bit to run OpenHPSDR PowerSDR 3.0.8.0 and an ANAN-10 (OpenHPSDR Hermes transceiver with an Apache Labs 10 watt Filter/PA board).  The Win7 resource manager shows PowerSDR using about 9% of CPU cycles with a sample rate of 384khz and 2 receivers running.  You don't need much of a computer to get good perfomance with these radios.  If you drop the sample rate back to 48khz, the CPU ultilization drops to around 3% with the same

Bill KC9XG

That's good but I still reccomend a faster computer.  Should someone want to start running 7-14 slices the processing needs will go up.  If you start running virtual serial ports so you can use HRD or Comcast or both like I do then you start running into even moremcou demand.  Add multiple displays, ect and you can start using up even more resources.  Don't forget that Windows 8 uses more resources than 7 as well.  You can almost always count on Microsoft to take its share of new hardware.  That alone drove me off big Bertha and on to HamZilla.  The upshot of over building Big Bertha back in 2007/2008 was that it was able to last till this year and make it through Vista and Windows 7.

I took the approach that this might be the last PC I will build.  I do also use HamZilla for other heavyweight work though which helps justify it.  My point is for a few hundred dollars extra you can have a PC that will carry you through lots of cool new CPU intensive things to come.
Logged

WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 04:35:00 PM »

Tim, if you decide to get rid of the Anan 10, drop me a PM here or email me. (my email is good
on qrz.com) I got to play with the 6700 at Belton today. Nice radio, but, they only had a wire
run out of the back of the building on the ground. No way to actually test it on transmit.
And it appears that the real holdup on shipment of the radios is the software. This particular 6700
had issues with SmartSDR and SmartSDR froze up while one of the Flex guys was showing it to me.
Turned out he had multiple instances of SmartSDR open and resources got used up on the computer
he was using with it. Closing all the instances of SmartSDR and rebooting the 6700 (just to be safe)
brought everything back to life. It is a neat radio. But, still, much too expensive for me. (at this time
anyway)
james
WD5GWY
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 05:34:32 PM »

What do you all think about this video comparing the two SDRs, does one sound a whole lot cleaner than the other?

http://youtu.be/Ago9_g4DPmc

Logged

WD5GWY
Member

Posts: 390




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 06:01:34 PM »

What do you all think about this video comparing the two SDRs, does one sound a whole lot cleaner than the other?

http://youtu.be/Ago9_g4DPmc


Both sounded similar, but, as someone posted there on YouTube, he kept adjusting the
AGC and that seemed to have some effect on the audio. I do think that the Hermes did
seem to have much cleaner audio. But, the Hermes could display much more bandwidth
at the same time too.
james
WD5GWY
Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 679




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 08:35:17 AM »

Hermes sounded very tinny compared to the Flex.
Logged
K5TED
Member

Posts: 679




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2013, 08:44:09 AM »

Wouldn't it have been great for the radio comparison producer to have had the forethought to put one radio on the left channel and the other on the right so we could do a true side by side, not a failed, pointless, A/B punctuated by flailing of settings?
Logged
NI0Z
Member

Posts: 560


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 09:21:41 AM »

Ok, what I heard 2/3rds the way through the video when he switched to the flex was that the flex seemed to have no hiss or static as compared to the Anan.  In fact, the Flex seemed strangly clear.  Not saying there is anything huge about this, I was just curious if anyone else noticed it and had impressions on it.

I have asked a,lot of questions in the yahoo group about the Anan 100D and am starting to get some of the answers back.  So far pretty positive responses coming back.

Active development working on their version of PowerSDR.  These include 384K width, and other filter improvements.  Works with the DJ controller so no fork needed to get my knobs.  I think I can convert my unbalanced to balanced mic input easy enough.  I could even create my own plug to continue running unbalanced if I wanted.  So far though, only 2 receivers in PowerSDR.

cuSDR looks promising.  I have seen 4 receivers in videos.  It appears that transmit though is not enabled yet in that software. 

My impression so far is that we are talking about a radio that will have several years of software developments to tap its full potential.  Really in some ways I expect SmartSDR to be pretty much the same, the difference being that the Apache is here today, open source so lots of developers creating for it where as the Flex is not baked yet and has closed APIs.

I do wonder though if the full potential of either radio will ever be realized.  Diversity reception won't be for everyone.  It only has mildly served me on my dual RX flex 5K.

Still, I am close to getting one, the experimenter in me is liking what I see.

That's all I have uncovered worth noting so far.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!