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Author Topic: Please Remind Me Again -- Why Dayton?  (Read 140761 times)
K7NSW
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Posts: 58




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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2013, 07:24:45 AM »

The future?  Guys like me will not help Dayton.  I am a licensed ham of many years.  I now have time on my hands, some disposable income, and a willingness to go to an event like Dayton and spend some money on food, lodging, ham treasures, etc.  But go to Dayton and a place like the Hara?  Forget it.  Those who apparently know the facts report attendance is down and will likely continue to slide.  I suppose the folks who put on the event will continue to milk it for whatever it will produce for however long it will last.  Then a lack of attendance or the results of a personal injury law suit will finally kill it.  Based on what I am hearing and reading, the clock is running out on Dayton.  Who will attend when the geezers go away?  One attendee/commentator who attended Dayton this year noted that most of the dwindling patrons were clearly senior citizens.  The newbies are not showing up in enough numbers to keep the event going.  The historic significance and romance of it all will probably be lost on the new generation of hams.  Bob Hope was famous for saying "Thanks for the memories".  Looks to me like the Dayton Convention is heading to a new address on Memory Lane.  What a shame that such a good thing cannot or will not be moved to a more favorable venue.
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »

I think people attend, behave, etc according to their surroundings.  Hara is as low as it gets.   Legions of smelly obese hams on scooters....just the thing to show off America's premiere ham radio event to the world.  I saw one guy even try taking the hill (the shaded steep grassy area just outside the building) on his scooter.  He made it up 6 or so feet before his scooter protested the 450 pound load, and came tumbling back down.  He just laid on the pavement like a beached whale.  When the EMT pulled up in his Gator, he got out and stood over the beauty sprawled out and just asked: "alright Hoss, what's going on?"



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K2YO
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Posts: 436




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« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2013, 12:54:31 PM »

Those who apparently know the facts report attendance is down and will likely continue to slide.

Richard,
Who exactly are you quoting?

According to the published records, the attendance has been rising every year for the last 6 years, the same way the total number of hams is rising every year. I'm curious who is spouting these lies about amateur radio shrinking, because they are absolutely not true.

You need to be more careful about who you believe and where you get the information you are going to quote.

Bernie
K2YO
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12644




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« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2013, 01:28:02 PM »

Actually if you look at the DARA web page you'll find the following:
   attendance peaked at 33,669 in 1993.
   then an overall decline with some peaks and valleys.
   bottomed out at 17,250 in 2008
   its been climbing since then to 24,542 in 2013.

So, it declined for a while and has recently been coming back.

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K2YO
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Posts: 436




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« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2013, 02:00:26 PM »

So, it declined for a while and has recently been coming back.

That is exactly my point. Over the last 5 or 6 years, in a bad economy, the Hamvention attendance has been growing. People keep wanting to say it's dying, but the show is on an upswing.

Bernie
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2013, 08:34:27 PM »

Beer sales looked like they were on the upswing, too.

Hey...that's it!  I think we've figured out why we keep going back to Hara.  See what you can learn here on eHam....we've cracked the Hara mystery.
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AE5QB
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Posts: 264




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« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2013, 08:25:41 PM »

Arm chair quarterbacks...amazes me.  I have never been to Dayton but would love to go.  I cannot because I am a teacher but one day I will go when I am able.  But that is not important what people need to understand is that putting on an event like Dayton is not something you just decide to move.  It is a tremendous undertaking to promote any event.  If not, we would all be promoting rock stars across the country and making millions.  The fact is that most of us have no clue what it takes to put on an event even half the size.  The reason it stays in Dayton is because D.A.R.A. has learned how to do it, have the volunteers, not just to work it, but who know how to plan it and negotiate the requirements.  I am willing to bet a dollar to a donut that if D.A.R.A. posted on eHam today that they were getting out of the business and would be willing to give the event to whatever club could handle it, there were be no club capable of standing up and saying they could do it.  Don't believe me, just try organizing even a small event like a special operating event.  Just try it and see what happens.  Pick a historical site near your location and plan a special event station with the requirements that you operate 24 x 7 for a 3 day period on 3 bands.  Make sure you have operators to cover all shifts as well as PR people present to explain what is going on.  You can either sell concessions yourself or hire someone else to do it for you - you keep the profits.  Don't forget to promote your event to get people to come out.  You decide if you want to charge admission or not.  Try to get one major vendor to come and if you have the nerve, tell them you are going to charge them to attend.  Now, most of us have no clue where to start.  Maybe we think we do, but we do not.  And even if we do, most of us do not the time, energy, or gonads to take it on.

So get off your high horses folks.  This has been discussed and disgusted over and over.  The D.A.R.A folks have looked at other venues and for whatever reason have not found anything suitable at this time.  Give em a break!  If you don't want to go - don't go! If you want to put them out of business - do it by putting on a better show.  If it makes you feel better by coming here and bad-mouthing them, please stop.  It serves no purpose, is not constructive, and only gives new Hams a bad impression.  It is time the trolls on this subject either put up or shut up.

Thanks D.A.R.A. you folks are a class act. I appreciate all you do for the ham radio community.
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2013, 01:20:48 PM »

I have never been to Dayton but would love to go.

Well there's credibility, and a reason to have such a definite opinion.  

Maybe you can have your science students research the effects of human exposure to raw sewage.  Hepatitis and dysentery can kill you.

AE5QB....the issue is Hara, not DARA. Read the thread and relax.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 01:56:37 PM by K9MHZ » Logged
AE5QB
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Posts: 264




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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2013, 08:20:58 PM »

I have never been to Dayton but would love to go.

AE5QB....the issue is Hara, not DARA. Read the thread and relax.


Actually I am quite relaxed, thank you.  And I disagree with you.  The issue is not Hara, the issue that everyone wants to make out of this is that D.A.R.A. should move the event or it should be held somewhere else in the country.  Go back and read the posts - the east coast, Florida, Vegas, anywhere there is a nicer venue. Well isn't that a simple and well thought out decision?  My understanding is that D.A.R.A. has looked at other venues and has found nothing feasible.  Let's get down to the brass tacks here.  If not Hara, where?  Be specific.  Come up with a great idea and then the rest of us can think of the dozens of reasons why your idea is not feasible or just dumb.  And that is exactly what is being done here. D.A.R.A. is being portrayed as an incompetent or dumb group of folks for not choosing another venue.  Again, put up or shut up.  What happens is people want to complete complain but they have no real suggestions.  If that makes you feel better then I suggest you look in the mirror because that is where the problem lies.  Everyone knows about the sewage problem, it has been discussed over and over and over and please provide the names of those who died from hepatitis or dysentery.  Can't come up with any, I didn't think you would.  But boy that sure makes great press doesn't it?  Sewer problems occur from time to time.  Have you never had your toilet back up?  Shame on you!  You should move to another home immediately.  Don't you know that people can die from hepatitis and dysentery.  My gosh folks.  Get a life.  I say it again - either put up and do something better or shut up.  If you want another suggestion, join D.A.R.A. and show them how to do it correctly.  I am confident they will appreciate your enlightened input.
I didn't think so.

By the way, I teach my students to be objective observers; something I am not seeing in these repetitive and ongoing threads.  Keep it in perspective, please and look for solutions.
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2013, 07:54:45 AM »

AE5QB...nobody is slamming DARA, and you're making this up.....all the way from Texas and never actually having been to the show.

How bizarre.

   

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W9IQ
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Posts: 102




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« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2013, 04:51:28 PM »

I have been to Dayton many times. The event itself is great. DARA is to be commended for what it is. The venue is terrible. The bathrooms stink worse than an outhouse. The railings on the emergency exits are literally falling off. Exposed rubber electrical cable is used for permanent primary circuits in the main arena. The "parking lot" (mud field) and flee market grounds are a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you have never been there, don't bother trying to defend it.

If you have ever been standing in line waiting for the opening bell to get in and have heard the announcement that they cannot open until the fire marshal has completed their safety inspection, you cannot help but wonder how long it will take for someone to rescue the fire marshal! It amazes me that the local jurisdiction has not condemned the facility.

I am also a German resident and have attended the Friedrichshafen event many times. It stands in stark contrast to the facilities at Dayton. The parking is all on excellent blacktop. The food is great and varied, the facilities are large and clean, and everything is indoors (other than the outdoor biergarten and the balloon launches!). They do not have the same number of attendees as Dayton but it is a much more enjoyable event for me simply from a hygienic and creature comfort perspective. I actually enjoy eating at Friedrichshafen and I don't feel the need for bleach after using the toilets!

For me it comes down to the facilities - not the sponsoring organization.

- Glenn DJ0IQ and W9IQ
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K9MHZ
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:44 PM »

Perfectly put, Glenn.

Best,
Brad, K9MHZ

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AE5QB
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Posts: 264




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« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2013, 07:42:07 PM »

Glen and others.  I am not defending the facility.  I have been to Dayton many times (worked for NCR for 25 years)  I know the facility.  On the other hand, do you think the folks at D.A.R.A. do not know what the facility is like?  Do you think they haven't looked for others?  Do you think they wouldn't go somewhere else if it were feasible to do so?  I do understand what you are saying but there doesn't appear to be any feasible alternatives.  So unless someone has a solution to the issues, what positive can possible be served by the ongoing and continuing bitching about the facility? 

I go back to my original post. I challenge the arm chair quarterbacks (probably the ones who are riding around on the scooters) to put their fat butts to work finding a solution.  I have heard it said that Columbus and Cincinnati should be considered.  Maybe so, but for some reason D.A.R.A. has determined that it is not feasible to do so or maybe it is just a case in which they don't want to move it out of Dayton because they feel a tie to the community.  Whatever!  If Cincinnati or Columbus are great, then I challenge the clubs in those areas to put together a proposal and start negotiating with the ham vendors.  Let's get some competition going and take the convention away from Dayton.  After all, that is the American way, you know - build a better mouse trap or in this case, present a better convention proposal, and the world will beat a path to your door.

Put up or shut up!   
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W9IQ
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Posts: 102




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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2013, 08:18:18 AM »

Tom,

My comments were fair, kind, and comparative.

The DARA folks run an event that grosses north of $500,000 annually. I would hope that they want to hear from their customers, like me, regarding their satisfaction with the event. I would also hope as a result that they are pressuring Rue Wampler and Venueworks to re-invest in their facility before DARA looses their event to the competition that you are advocating.

- Glenn W9IQ
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W3WN
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2013, 06:03:19 AM »

I can't help but to wonder how much greater the Hamvention would be if it had the organization skills of DARA and a newer, safer, cleaner, bigger and better venue.  Is there a place in or near Dayton that could host the Hamvention?

Clint - W5CPT -
Well, the University of Dayton has some nice facilities.  

Whether or not they could handle Hamvention, let alone whether or not they would be willing to, is another story.

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