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Author Topic: ARRL Legislative Proposal  (Read 11160 times)
N3DF
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Posts: 252




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« on: May 22, 2013, 11:24:02 AM »

At the ARRL Members Forum at last weekend's Dayton Hamvention, League officials reminded attendees that they are currently seeking Representatives and Senators to sponsor legislation requiring reasonable accommodation of Amateur Radio stations in connection with the enforcement of property deed covenants.  While they appeared well aware of the problem, they did not seem particularly optimistic over the near-term chances for passing such legislation. 
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Neil N3DF
N4UM
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Posts: 478




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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 02:58:46 PM »

When pigs fly.
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K7JQ
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 10:57:08 AM »

Not gonna happen. Government won't get in the way of a private contract between homeowner and builder/HOA, except in regards to satellite dishes. The only reason there is because DirecTV and Dish Network have plenty of money to line the pockets of politicians. Money talks, and the amateur radio community doesn't have it.
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NK5G
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Posts: 102




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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 12:10:07 PM »

Amateur Radio is slowing becoming an illegal activity. Disagree? Just ask any ham who has received a letter from an HOA's attorney.

HOAs are now beginning to police antennas on vehicles under the premise of "no broadcasting" or "no antenna maintained on any lot". Others are writing restrictions against "hidden antennas" and "antennas in the attic".

It's easier to run a meth lab than amateur radio.

We need to keep in mind that this goes well beyond amateur radio. Non-hams in HOAs have similar porblems. States such as Texas are now looking into the unregulated power of HOAs. I think this is what will open the door for resaonalble antennas, not at the federal level.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 12:15:03 PM by NK5G » Logged
KF7CG
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 02:42:34 PM »

The cure for some of the strictest restrictions such as

"HOAs are now beginning to police antennas on vehicles under the premise of "no broadcasting" or "no antenna maintained on any lot". Others are writing restrictions against "hidden antennas" and "antennas in the attic".
"

is to help them with their enforcement so that they have to ban baby monitors, cell phones, wireless entertainment devices, uverse, xfinity and other wireless video devices. With a little care you can force them to ban something or rewrite the regs every week or so. Make sure that they comply with all open meeting rules that may apply also. If they want strictly enforced regulations, come to their assistance.

KF7CG
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N4NYY
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Posts: 4807




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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 03:53:25 PM »

Not gonna happen. Government won't get in the way of a private contract between homeowner and builder/HOA, except in regards to satellite dishes. The only reason there is because DirecTV and Dish Network have plenty of money to line the pockets of politicians. Money talks, and the amateur radio community doesn't have it.

That is pretty much it. Unless the FCC modifies PRB-1, and even then likely headed for court battles, I do not see it. One of the reasons I did not move to a development.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2013, 03:57:48 PM »

The cure for some of the strictest restrictions such as

"HOAs are now beginning to police antennas on vehicles under the premise of "no broadcasting" or "no antenna maintained on any lot". Others are writing restrictions against "hidden antennas" and "antennas in the attic".
"

is to help them with their enforcement so that they have to ban baby monitors, cell phones, wireless entertainment devices, uverse, xfinity and other wireless video devices. With a little care you can force them to ban something or rewrite the regs every week or so. Make sure that they comply with all open meeting rules that may apply also. If they want strictly enforced regulations, come to their assistance.

KF7CG

I was on a condo board from 1996-99. The HOA boards have very little enforcement power outside of fining. Even with fines, if you do not pay, they cannot do anything. They can only put a lein on your home so they can collect *when* you sell.

Regarding antenna's on vehicle, there is no way that they could ever enforce that or even fine for it. Would never hold up in court. As far as attic antenna, unless there is a common attic, again, not enforceable.

One thing about HOAs. They are not loaded with money, and any mentions of courts or lawyers, scares them. They are not setup to spend a ton of money on legal expenses. Most of the money goes toward snow removal, landscaping, and maintain the esthetics of the community.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 04:03:56 PM by N4NYY » Logged
W1AJO
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Posts: 108




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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 11:46:40 AM »

N4NYY wrote:

"I was on a condo board from 1996-99. The HOA boards have very little enforcement power outside of fining. Even with fines, if you do not pay, they cannot do anything. They can only put a lein on your home so they can collect *when* you sell."



Not true.  In many states HOAs can forclose on a property to collect fines, forcing a sale of the property.  They have to deal with the 1st lien holder if one exists.  But in may states they can forclose to get their fines.
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N4NYY
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 06:49:12 AM »

N4NYY wrote:

"I was on a condo board from 1996-99. The HOA boards have very little enforcement power outside of fining. Even with fines, if you do not pay, they cannot do anything. They can only put a lein on your home so they can collect *when* you sell."



Not true.  In many states HOAs can forclose on a property to collect fines, forcing a sale of the property.  They have to deal with the 1st lien holder if one exists.  But in may states they can forclose to get their fines.

Not in NJ, unless the laws have changed since then. From the looks of it, half allow it.

http://askville.amazon.com/HOA-foreclose-house-laws-vary-states/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2894440

Still, I do not see where they can legal go after your car, and unless they have a sniffer sniffing out RF, there is not way they can go thru your house.
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KH6DC
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2013, 01:26:42 PM »

The problem is that we as home owners have choices if we want to live in a HOA community or not.  No one's put a gun to our heads to live there.  I gave up my tower and hex to live in one 25 miles north of downtown Honolulu to be close to work (Schofield Barracks) and in a good school district for our son.  Just gotta be creative.
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
N3DF
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Posts: 252




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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 10:04:26 AM »

The problem is that we as home owners have choices if we want to live in a HOA community or not.  No one's put a gun to our heads to live there.  I gave up my tower and hex to live in one 25 miles north of downtown Honolulu to be close to work (Schofield Barracks) and in a good school district for our son.  Just gotta be creative.

First, in the states in which I have recently lived (Colorado and Florida), the vast majority of new housing continues to be built in HOA-controlled development.  As each year goes by, the percentage of the housing stock without restrictive covenants continues to shrink.

Second, when I was in high school, a friend showed me his Heathkit novice station.  I went to my father and told him I wanted to get a license, buy a transmitter and receiver, and throw up some dipoles.  He said "sure."  I wonder how frequently this happens today but the parents say "sorry, we can't put up antennas."
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Neil N3DF
KF7CG
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Posts: 840




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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 11:16:52 AM »

Still remember, many courts have held that if a "community" establishes a HOA and it provides benefits like snow removal, trash pickup, or other community service that accrue to the benefit of the home owner that home owner can be bound by the HOA rules.

If I remember my states correctly this happened several years back in NC. An Amateur lived a half mile or so from a HOA community, when the developer bought the property between the Amateur and the main road it included the easement for his driveway. The developer paved part of the driveway as a development street. In the course of time the HOA took over maintenance and snow removal on subdivision streets. The  Amateur at that point was considered by the courts in the area to be bound by the rules of the HOA including the ones prohibiting outside antennas. He brenefitted from snow removal and road maintenance even though not by his choosing. Still bound by the rules.

Not just Amateur Radio can be bound by arbitrary and excessive HOA regulations. Try the couple in Florida that was, at the height of the real estate downturn, told to sell their home or get an abortion. The over 55 couple had gotten pregnant and HOA rules forbade children under 18 from the development. It made the news briefly but I never heard the final outcome.

HOAs need limits to their powers, not just for Amateurs, but for the common person.

KF7CG
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AC7DX
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 10:32:12 AM »

Just dont buy into a HOA...simple as that!
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W6FEI
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Posts: 9




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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2013, 12:53:34 PM »

I'm sure this has all been discussed before here, but good luck finding any newer home that is not part of an HOA. As I am about to retire and move out of California, I am not willing or physically able to maintain an older home and property. Also, almost all newer areas that are close to medical and shopping are under these regulations. Sure you don't have to live there but the alternative areas often are too old or too far out from the resources many of us need and depend on, especially as we get older. Many of the older homes are often located in areas that families and older folks are afraid to live in.  HOA's were most often created by the original builder of the homes so properties maintained that new look. Once they sold out the division they gave it over to the home owners associations. They in turn generally have given that over to Property Management companies. These are the folks that do the patrolling for violators of the rules and assess the fines. Generally, they then split the fine income with the association, or keep the fines, so they are highly motivated to find problems.  Unless or until legislation or the FCC enforces a PRB-1 type of rules for HOA's they will continue to enforce the rules. Hams will have to continue to hide their antennas and covertly enjoy their hobby. After 50 plus years of having the freedom to operate openly, that is not a fun prospect, but like thousands of others in the same situation, I am sure I will find a compromise way of continuing to enjoy this pastime.


W6FEI
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W1AJO
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Posts: 108




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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2013, 07:46:22 PM »

In 2007 when I was deploying to Iraq I had to get a home for my wife near family in GA.  Not a single subdivision in Coweta County GA was HOA free. Not one.

I simply did not have enough time to buy land that was HOA free and build a home.  It's easy to say don't buy into an HOA buy the reality is that many times there are no other options.
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