Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: ARRL Legislative Proposal  (Read 10262 times)
W6UV
Member

Posts: 536




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 03:29:30 PM »

It's easy to say don't buy into an HOA buy the reality is that many times there are no other options.

There are always options. When looking for a house, tell your realtor that you want something with no CC&Rs and no HOA. That's what I did when I moved 2-1/2 years ago. My realtor gave me a list of many properties in the area (which is rife with HOA developments) that fit this criteria.

If I can find a house without antenna restrictions in the S.F. Bay area, I'll bet you can do the same just about anywhere. It just takes effort and perseverance.
Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5824




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 03:44:21 AM »

The FCC has said time and again that any relief from the requirements of HOAs will have to come from legislation, not rulemaking.  In any event, The HOA controls what you can do outside your home, but they can seldom control what you do inside it--unless you let them.  If you want to give away your freedoms, that's your business--just don't complain about it after the fact.
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 166




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 03:20:01 PM »

In any event, The HOA controls what you can do outside your home, but they can seldom control what you do inside it--unless you let them.
Not quite true. I have seen CC&Rs that prohibit running a business from your home--even if it is something as simple as running a mail order business from your spare bedroom. I have seen where an HOA shut down a small medical practice being run from a home.
Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5824




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2013, 04:14:14 PM »

Those things, yes, but I meant things that may seem a little out of the ordinary to some people.
Logged
KF7CG
Member

Posts: 799




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 06:04:20 AM »

HOA, an asylum for the preservation of malignant mediocrity! If it ain't middle of the road mainstream common practice that matches all the neighbors it aint.  "An they all lived in little boxes, Little boxes made of ticky-tacky and they all look the same."

KF7CG
Logged
G3RZP
Member

Posts: 4328




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 09:57:47 AM »

Especially somewhere that can see hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, brush fires etc, the first time hams are involved in EMCOM to help should be used as an excuse to ask for easement. If refused, the next time disaster strikes, ARES should walk away and tell the HOA and everybody who didn't want ham radio that it is their own problem. Cruel, but the only way to deal with these Nazis.
Logged
N4UM
Member

Posts: 440




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 05:52:44 PM »

G3RZP "... the next time disaster strikes, ARES should walk away and tell the HOA and everybody who didn't want ham radio that it is their own problem. Cruel, but the only way to deal with these Nazis."

I made that decision here in hurricane-prone South Florida several years ago.  If my HOA doesn't want ham radio...why should I do what they have prohibited?
Logged
N3DF
Member

Posts: 250




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2013, 11:59:12 AM »

It's easy to say don't buy into an HOA buy the reality is that many times there are no other options.

There are always options. When looking for a house, tell your realtor that you want something with no CC&Rs and no HOA. That's what I did when I moved 2-1/2 years ago. My realtor gave me a list of many properties in the area (which is rife with HOA developments) that fit this criteria.

If I can find a house without antenna restrictions in the S.F. Bay area, I'll bet you can do the same just about anywhere. It just takes effort and perseverance.

First, in a good many areas the portion of all housing that is not subject to CC&Rs is shrinking smaller and smaller.  Second, the percentage of all new housing (if that is what you are after) that is not subject to CC&Rs is tiny in many areas.  Third, ssometimes someone in the household decides to become a ham only years after the house purchase is made. 

My parents bought their house in 1952.  In 1965, I told my dad I wanted to join the high school amateur radio club and also build a station at home.  He helped me put up dipoles in my Novice year and a yagi when I qualified for General.  In a community with CC&Rs, that never would have happened. 
Logged

Neil N3DF
W6UV
Member

Posts: 536




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2013, 03:23:25 PM »

First, in a good many areas the portion of all housing that is not subject to CC&Rs is shrinking smaller and smaller.  Second, the percentage of all new housing (if that is what you are after) that is not subject to CC&Rs is tiny in many areas. 

That may be the case, but the competition for houses without CC&Rs is probably fairly low given that many people actually like living under CC&Rs. A tiny market is not no market, and if ham radio is that important to you (it is only a hobby, after all), then you will be willing to look harder and compromise, if necessary.

Quote
Third, ssometimes someone in the household decides to become a ham only years after the house purchase is made.

I hear this argument all the time and always think, so what? This could apply to almost anything prohibited by CC&Rs and the argument would be just as specious. Suppose you moved into a house years before you became interested in horses and the CC&Rs prohibited horses? Would you expect the restriction be lifted for you just because you developed a sudden interest in horses years later?

Quote
In a community with CC&Rs, that never would have happened. 

Maybe not. But would that be the end of the world? I doubt it. You'd find other interests until you were old enough to move to a place of your own (which you hopefully would have researched carefully to make sure it didn't have CC&Rs).

We live in a country where almost everything is market-driven. If CC&Rs were widely reviled, as some claim, then it would be easy for a developer in an area to corner the market by building a development and not subjecting it to CC&Rs. The fact is that many (most?) people actually prefer to live in an area with CC&Rs because it does ensure a uniform appearance and prohibits people from doing things that disrupt the neighborhood. Since hams make up approximately 0.22% of the population, I doubt that the other 99.78% are going to want this to change any time soon.
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12644




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »

I don't know about other areas, but in my area I have seen first hand that CC&Rs are usually negotiated with the county and proffered by the developer in an effort to get county approval for the development. For the most part they are not market driven - they are essentially controlled by the county government. The county likes it because they don't have to pass and enforce laws. The homeowners have to "voluntarily" agree to them in order to purchase the property and if they don't abide by them the the HOA goes to court and enforces them.

It's legal blackmail. No CC&Rs - no approval for the development!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:49:11 PM by AA4PB » Logged
W6UV
Member

Posts: 536




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 04:30:21 PM »

It's legal blackmail. No CC&Rs - no approval for the development!

Interesting. I wonder if there's any way to legally challenge what essentially amounts to coercion by the county government?

One way would be to vote the county officials out of office, but most people are too apathetic to care.
Logged
W0MT
Member

Posts: 166




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 05:45:12 PM »

It's legal blackmail. No CC&Rs - no approval for the development!

Interesting. I wonder if there's any way to legally challenge what essentially amounts to coercion by the county government?

One way would be to vote the county officials out of office, but most people are too apathetic to care.
I don’t think there is much coercion by local government for HOA and CC&Rs when a developer wants to develop land. The normal process goes something like this:

A developer normally starts with raw land. It might be a corn field or a pasture. To develop the land requires approval by the local government–county or city. The local government requires a development plan that includes infrastructure to be put in place by the developer. That includes utilities, roads and curbs, storm water management, sidewalks, etc. No local government is going to allow a developer to built houses and then stick the government with the bill for such things. The developer merely adds these costs to the selling price of the homes. And of course, few individuals would purchase a new home without things like electric service and roads to get to the home.

Many developers look around and see that many people are attracted to a new development if it includes a community swimming pool, tennis courts, playgrounds, etc. Once the development is completely sold, the developer doesn’t want anything to do with running and maintaining such amenities. Neither does the local government. The solution is simple, form an HOA. Nobody is forcing the developer to include the amenities or to form an HOA. The HOA is established with CC&Rs. While it is possible for the CC&Rs to do nothing more than empower the HOA with the ability to collect monies to run and maintain the amenities, there is another reason for the CC&Rs to control what owners can and cannot do. No developer wants someone to buy a home in the development and then put a chicken coop in the front yard and paint the home red, purple, green, and pink during the time the developer is still trying to sell homes. Once the development is mostly sold, the HOA gets turned over to the homeowners.

In short, it is in the economic interest of the developer to include HOAs and CC&Rs. And once they are in place, it is normally quite difficult to get rid of them. Voting out all local government officials is not going to do anything for those already in place and probably not stop developers from using them.
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12644




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 07:00:04 PM »

That's not been my experience. The CC&Rs are agreed to (proffered) by the developer BEFORE the development is approved by the county planning and zoning board. Those CC&Rs are in place and enforced by the developer until such time as an HOA takes over. The CC&Rs are filed at the courthouse and go with the land from owner to owner, even if no HOA is ever put in place. Once the developer leaves if there is no active HOA then it will be up to the individual land owners to enforce the CC&Rs through the courts (or I suppose the county could take you to court to enforce them). My development, now about 30 years old, is an example. There is not (and never has been) an active HOA but I do have CC&Rs on my property. Fortunately it doesn't say anything about antennas but it does include things like no chain link fences in the front yard, no barnyard animals, etc.

I've been involved in a couple of rezoning issues for organizations where we've had to agree to proffered CC&Rs under threat of disapproval of the application. The county's got their list of things they'd like you to add and its not to your benefit to argue with them unless you have a very good justification.

Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!