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Author Topic: Town ordinance for 150 MPH antenna  (Read 9496 times)
K4JDG
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Posts: 3




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« on: June 02, 2013, 10:35:43 AM »

I recently changed out my Hy-Gain AV-640 vertical antenna for a 2 element Yagi SteppIR.  I put this on top of a Force 12 Low Profile Tower (LPT1252).  Since the antenna was only 30 pounds, I didn't believe I needed a building permit.  Of course my next door neighbor turned me in and I was wrong.

There is a 35' tower height requirement in my town of Venice, Florida.  Mine is a telescoping tower capable of reaching 52'.  This is illegal in my town.  I put a 1/8" cable connecting the top and bottom of the tower keeping it from going higher than 35' and thought this was going to be the end of it.

Now I received word that there is a 150 MPH town ordinance for antennas.  The SteppIR I have is rated for 100 MPH, which I thought was great.  I have sent a request to SteppIR to learn what their high wind kit can do for me, but I doubt it will come in at 150 MPH.

In researching different antennas, I could find only one that was rated at 150 MPH.  They accomplish this by adding 3 1/2" boom pipes and upgrading all hardware.

My question is this.  Can a town ordnance be made for something that really doesn't exist?  If you can't buy an antenna rated at 150 MPH, then they are actually banning all new antenna installations?



 

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K1CJS
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Posts: 6061




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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 12:35:33 PM »

With all due respects, you're learning.  These towns that do such things impose restrictions that are way overboard in hopes that they won't have to go through the processes of actually researching and approving every application they get.  If it doesn't meet their minimum specs, it's automatically blocked. 

The other side of the coin is that they can go around to people who don't want towers around and say "We're making sure that "inferior" installations will not get approved.  See how nice we're being so you won't have to worry about these things?"
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N4UM
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Posts: 483




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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 01:35:48 PM »

One must wonder whether the houses, buildings, telephone and power poles in Venice, FL are able to handle 150 MPH winds.  I doubt it.  Remember, the force generated by a 150 mph wind is more than twice that generated by a 100 mph wind.  Why should antennas be treated any differently than any other structures approved by the municipality?  It might be time to spend some money on an attorney. 
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WX7G
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Posts: 6328




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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 05:45:30 PM »

The very fine book, Physical Design of Yagi Antennas will lead you to a way to modify an antenna (not the SteppIR) to withstand a 150 mph gust.

http://www.amazon.com/Satellite-Anthology-Steve-Ford/dp/0872593819

You might decide that a stealthy antenna, such as a ground mounted screwdriver vertical, is the easier solution. No beam for you!
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K1CJS
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Posts: 6061




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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 04:08:43 AM »

The very fine book, Physical Design of Yagi Antennas will lead you to a way to modify an antenna (not the SteppIR) to withstand a 150 mph gust....

The problem isn't the actual modification of the antenna, it's the certification that the antenna WILL withstand the wind.  You've got to get an engineer to sign off on prints or in some manner that will satisfy the town.
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WX7G
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 08:13:05 AM »

Is it time to go back to the Hy-Gain AV-640? If you aren't already running an amp now is a good time to go add one.
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K7KB
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Posts: 618




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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 11:35:17 AM »

Usually the best advice I give to people who are in your situation is to never trust what someone at the local Building & Planning office tells you. Always look into the zoning regulations yourself and see if they are giving you the straight scoop. From the Venice, FL zoning regulations:

Sec. 86-485. - Tower height.permanent link to this piece of content

All proposed towers shall conform to the following maximum height requirements. The height of towers shall be determined by measuring the vertical distance from the tower or existing structure's lowest point of contact with the ground to the highest point of the tower, including all antennas or other attachments. The maximum height of any tower shall be as follows:

(1)

  Readily visible to residential properties.
  a.
     Free standing: 75 feet.
  b.
    When mounted on existing buildings or structures: No greater than 15 feet above existing building or structure.

(2)
 
  Not readily visible to residential properties.

  a.
    Free standing: 200 feet.
  b.
    When mounted on existing buildings or structures: No greater than 15 feet above existing building or structure.

(Ord. No. 98-3, § 1, 2-10-98; Ord. No. 2003-32, § 3, 10-28-03)

Also, this is at the end of section 8:

Sec. 86-495. - Exclusions.permanent link to this piece of content

Division 8 is not intended to regulate private use residential satellite dishes, antennas for wireless internet access or private wireless ham communication antennas. Anything herein to the contrary notwithstanding, this division shall not apply to any of them.

(Ord. No. 98-3, § 1, 2-10-98; Ord. No. 2003-32, § 3, 10-28-03)

Also, I couldn't find anything that listed a 150 MPH wind load rating for antennas in Venice, but ask them in what section of the ordinance where it's listed. If it's in section 8, there you go Smiley

Even if they do have a 150 MPH windload rating for WCF (Cell) towers that doesn't mean it automatically applies to Amateur Radio towers. TIA-222-G provides exclusions for Class I Amateur Radio towers but you have to convince them of that. Also a municipality can impose their own wind load rating if they choose to do so. However, if they are using TIA-222-G as their standard, then you have a valid argument.

John K7KB
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N4NYY
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Posts: 4820




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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 03:09:09 PM »

Personally, I have serious doubts that any amateur antenna can survive 100 mph, let alone 150 mph. Not sure how the town would know the difference, unless you have to supply the info to them. We had 70 mph storm here like 5 years ago, and numerous ham and CB antennas were wiped out. The may survive quick gusts that high, but sustained winds of a hurricane? No chance.
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K4JDG
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Posts: 3




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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 01:20:18 PM »

John K7KB,  thanks for the info.   The issue is not really a zoning problem.  They only require the height to not exceed 35'.  I am going to live with that requirement .... pick the battles that are more important.

The requirement is from the building permit office.  Here is their response back to me. I have included a link to their building codes.  Section 16 is the one they are referring to.

http://ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resources/2010Florida/Building/10FL_Building.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The antenna design wind speed, according to the specifications provided, is rated only to 100 mph.  The minimum design wind speed for the city of Venice is 150 mph per 2010 FBC-B, Figure 1609A.

Please submit a Florida engineer sealed set of plans compliant with FBC-B Section 1609 or (TIA-22, FBC-B, 1609.1.1, Exception #5).

If the antenna foundation/support design includes attachment to the structure, the structure shall also be evaluated for the additional wind loading.

Antenna grounding shall comply with the 2008 NEC Articles 810 & 250. Approved materials and methods shall also be used in complying with the NEC.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 I believe the TIA-222 rule allows me to reduce the wind rating by 13% which puts me at 130 MPH. 

I have been in contact with US Towers and their engineer suggested model TMM-433SS.  He said the engineering plans he can write up for me will show it will withstand 130 MPH in the fully down position (11' 4").  It will withstand 70 MPH in the fully up position of 33'.  The cost for these plans is roughly $300

I also contacted Rohn Towers.  I talked personally to Tim Rohn and he said the Rev-G towers can handle 120 MPH using the old ASCE7-05 specs.  He said this would be about the same as 150 mph under the new ASCE7-10 specs the town of Vestal is using. 

It all depends on how tough the building permit people want to make it for me.....

I will find out and post back.

John K4JDG 



 
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AB4ZT
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 05:12:39 PM »

For all of those following this, here is an important point:  When it comes to the height issue, it is in fact a zoning matter.  The restrictions quoted by K7KB apply to those zoning districts (such as industrial) where such structures as cell phone towers and commercial radio towers are allowed.  Very often, residential zoning districts do not allow such structures.  In residential zoning districts, unless specifically exempted, the default height limit almost always becomes the height limit for all structures (dwellings and otherwise) in those districts.  In low and medium density districts, that limit is nearly universally 35 feet.  In some cases where higher density (and taller buildings) are allowed, it may be higher.  If you are going through a jurisdiction's zoning ordinance or land development code to see if there are restrictions on tower height, you must consider that a zoning district's overall height restriction may very likely apply to any tower or antenna, unless it is very specifically stated that it is not subject to that district's restrictions.  Old news, but if your are considering property and want a tower, consulting a land use attorney who lives in that jurisdiction is very cheap insurance.

73,

Richard, AB4ZT
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W1AJO
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Posts: 108




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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 07:25:54 PM »

I tracked down the actual TIA standard.  It's TIA-222 G.  To get a copy TIA will charge you a whopping $524   Shocked

http://www.tiaonline.org/standards/buy-tia-standards   enter 222 G in the search box  or

http://global.ihs.com/doc_detail.cfm?currency_code=USD&customer_id=2125442C410A&shopping_cart_id=28274833284A403441594D28510A&rid=TIA&input_doc_number=ANSI%2FTIA-222&country_code=US&lang_code=ENGL&item_s_key=00122271&item_key_date=940429&input_doc_number=


Most of the standard does not apply to hams putting up a tower at their home.

The ARRL needs to get a less expensive copy for hams.

No, I did not buy a copy Smiley
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K1DA
Member

Posts: 539




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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2013, 07:09:41 AM »

   Good work, K7KB.  I would say the town will may have a problem if other structures such as commercial signs are not held to the same standard.  The standard is there for a reason, and must be applied in similar fashion to similar structures.  I know Venice well, there are MANY hams there, surely they can put down the golf clubs long enough to do a bit of lobbying of the town government. 
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K4JDG
Member

Posts: 3




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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 12:58:29 PM »

I have been told that if I have to try for a variance in front of the town board, my whole ham radio club (TARC) will show up for support.  They are giving me lots of good advise. 

I have a structural engineer looking over all of my specs now to see if the tower can be beefed up a little to reach 130 MPH.

The antenna is most likely going to be impossible, but SteppIR is reviewing to see if there is any way to bump up the 100 MPH current rating.

I will keep you posted.

73,     John / K4JDG
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KD0REQ
Member

Posts: 1050




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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 09:58:44 AM »

lots of coastal regulations have been revised way upwards following the hurricanes of the 2000 decade.  congratulations, you are now safer.
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