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Author Topic: Weather and 2 meter  (Read 2035 times)
KF4GKY
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Posts: 21




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« on: June 20, 2013, 09:59:54 PM »

Hello,
   I am getting ready to put my crush craft 26-b2 beams.  What I want to do once I have it installed and start using it is to track the weather based on how far I can communicate.  I would like some advice on what you would track.  Would you just track the weather in your location?  If not how many miles would you look at data? One of the things I want to track is the Barometer pressure at my location.  My plan is to create a log in a database to input the info.  Would you track info on not only my station but the stations that I can contact?  I will be stacking the beams horizontally and will be working cw and SSB.  I am sure this has already been done but I feel the best way to learn is to do it yourself.  Thanks for reading and any advise you give will be a great help.
                                                                                                 Thank you and 73's
                                                                                                                  John
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 10:05:08 PM by KF4GKY » Logged
KA4POL
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Posts: 1983




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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 10:18:38 PM »

This is a challenging task. As I see it you would have to track weather conditions within a circle of 200 miles radius, may be even more. It is important to know how temperature over altitude develops to see inversion layers. Pressure does not necessarily influence that. Humidity would also be important to know.
I'd check the conditions and if there is an extraordinary connection then try to get weather information along that path.
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 13251




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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 10:35:42 PM »

Also check the list of 2m beacons to see which ones you can hear from your location during
normal conditions, and how strong they are.  Then you can compare relative signal strengths
under different conditions, as well as listening for beacons that only appear under unusual
circumstances.  That gives you a repeatable signal source day after day.

You may want look at some of the detailed weather maps to see what is going on, as you
might not notice otherwise when there is a temperature inversion.
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AF5CC
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Posts: 864




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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 10:54:44 PM »

Look at the Hepburn tropo forecast to predict openings as well.  See:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html
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WA3SKN
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Posts: 5480




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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 03:58:56 AM »

I would first set up and log the weather at your location, possibly logging snapshots of the radar picture also, and have fixed stations with fixed power levels surrounding you.  Document the contacts with the fixed stations vs the weather conditions.
Good luck with the project!
73s.

-Mike.
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5689




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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 05:52:04 AM »

This could easily end up as yet another correlation-causation situation in which false assumptions only serve to cloud an issue. 

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W8JX
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Posts: 5794




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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 06:26:31 AM »

Hello,
   I am getting ready to put my crush craft 26-b2 beams.  What I want to do once I have it installed and start using it is to track the weather based on how far I can communicate.  I would like some advice on what you would track.  Would you just track the weather in your location?  If not how many miles would you look at data? One of the things I want to track is the Barometer pressure at my location.  My plan is to create a log in a database to input the info.  Would you track info on not only my station but the stations that I can contact?  I will be stacking the beams horizontally and will be working cw and SSB.  I am sure this has already been done but I feel the best way to learn is to do it yourself.  Thanks for reading and any advise you give will be a great help.
                                                                                                 Thank you and 73's
                                                                                                                  John

I would strongly suggest that you put a Hustler G7 or like above beams. The reason is you can listen for ducting on vertical on FM or SSB and than direct beam in that direction. Save a lot of time spinning beam around and looking as a stack of 13b2's is pretty tight/narrow. 
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N0IU
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 04:54:44 AM »

This could easily end up as yet another correlation-causation situation in which false assumptions only serve to cloud an issue. 

Plus it also assumes that at any given day under any given weather conditions there will be someone at the furthest (or would that be farthest?) point of communications. Just because you can reach someone (and I am just making up a number) 200 miles away, there might be someone 50 miles further away who does does run CW or SSB but does not happen to be at his radio at that time.

It also assumes that the someone at the furthest point of communications also has the capability to receive your signals. If I am at a point close to the furthest point of reception, your signals may very well be capable of reaching my house, but if I have a simple ground plane, I will probably never hear you as opposed to someone who also has beams at a higher elevation pointed in your direction.

There are just too many other variables for an unscientific study to definitively say that weather conditions are THE determining factor in distance.
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W8JX
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 01:04:56 PM »

There are just too many other variables for an unscientific study to definitively say that weather conditions are THE determining factor in distance.

There is no question that indeed weather condition are THEE determining factor behind this phenomenon. The only question is what conditions have greats effect and how to read and predict them.
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KE3WD
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 02:36:32 PM »

To say that, you would have to disregard the SUN totally. 

And meteor showers. 

And a few other phenomena as well. 

And, yes, the sun can do a lot of things that don't necessarily impact our weather condx. 
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W8JX
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Posts: 5794




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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 03:00:04 PM »

To say that, you would have to disregard the SUN totally. 

And meteor showers. 

And a few other phenomena as well. 

And, yes, the sun can do a lot of things that don't necessarily impact our weather condx. 

No, not at all when talking about air mass bending/ducting of signal.
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WB0KSL
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Posts: 94




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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 05:36:12 PM »

I've noticed that scanning NOAA weather radio channels that I DON'T normally receive can be an indicator of ducting on 2 m.  When you hear one that is not normally received, eventually the transmission will identify the station's location.  Ergo, direction of the duct.  They're not all that much higher in frequency than 2 m.  Up around 162 mhz.

73 de WB0KSL, John
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W8JX
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Posts: 5794




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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 05:48:39 PM »

I've noticed that scanning NOAA weather radio channels that I DON'T normally receive can be an indicator of ducting on 2 m.  When you hear one that is not normally received, eventually the transmission will identify the station's location.  Ergo, direction of the duct.  They're not all that much higher in frequency than 2 m.  Up around 162 mhz.

73 de WB0KSL, John


Back before digital TV, there was days in spring and summer during unsettled weather that I was receiving in Ohio UHF broadcasts from Kentucky and Tennessee clearly at times.
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KE3WD
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 08:02:11 AM »



No, not at all when talking about air mass bending/ducting of signal.


But how would one know that any observed phenomenon was indeed due to the air mass bending/ducting and not due to any of the other known vagaries that can affect the propagation? 

That's the problem as I see it.


73
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W8JX
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 08:44:04 AM »


But how would one know that any observed phenomenon was indeed due to the air mass bending/ducting and not due to any of the other known vagaries that can affect the propagation? 

That's the problem as I see it.


Is is the nature of signal. Ducting produces strong steady signals that can last for hours at times while back scatter, meteor and a rare E skip (2m only) tend to be fluttery and short duration.
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