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Author Topic: Field Day 2013 - PSK31 conduct  (Read 5554 times)
K5TED
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Posts: 731




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« on: June 23, 2013, 02:29:57 PM »

Saturday, June 22, 2013.. 1800 UTC... Wham! I don't remember a Field Day when there were so many streams on 20m PSK31 in the first hour. By the second hour, the waterfall was packed solid, wall to wall with hundreds of signals. I'd set up my station on battery power, running 30w into a tripod mounted magloop, and things looked very promising.

However, along with the huge turnout came a huge disappointment with some operators. It's understandable that in this contest there would be crowding, and working crowded PSK slots with a solar or battery powered station is not something foreign to me, but this was different.

Having decided to bite the bullet and resist the urge to point and click on CQ FD streams, I opted instead to park on a slot and call, hoping they would come to me. They did. Only problem was, "those guys" showed up. The bad actors.

I stopped keeping track of the times where I would call CQ, get a reply, and watch as another station would immediately start calling the station that was replying to me, on "my slot".

Yeah, yeah, I get that the slot doesn't belong to anyone, but in this case, it had to be very obvious to the offending station that they were in effect breaking into an ongoing QSO. If I could see them, they could almost certainly see me, notwithstanding the fact that the other station was CALLING ME BY CALLSIGN.

To top it off, the station calling me would ask for a resend, by my callsign, and the lids would continue to call them or worse, not getting a response from that station, would commit the ultimate insult, to try calling me, proving that they could, indeed, see me.. It was Just Like Phone Pileups, but more irritating, since there is no way to separate two PSK streams on the same slot. It's all Cheerios..

What should have been a banner day for domestic PSK contacts turned into mostly an exercise in resending or ditching a potential contact point.





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W6DPS
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 04:58:13 PM »

I had that experience also.

I heard several stations calling CQ on PSK were basically moved from 'their' spot because other stations would pop in and call to the stations that had originally answered the CQ, in some cases jumping in in the midst of a QSO asking the answering station to resend the exchange, and then replying with theirs.

I noticed a couple of local stations that would apparently wait while another station answered a CQ, but then answer the same CQ before the calling station could respond, or continue to answer the CQ during a QSO.

Or launch a CQ immediately following some else's.  It might be that they couldn't hear the first stations, but when they consistently follow immediately after the first station ends transmission it sure looks suspicious.

I wonder if it is simply not knowing better, or being so focused on the points that courtesy takes a hit...

Don't even get me started on the stations running strong wide signals and de-sensing the whole passband.

So what is the best way to get the word around on the polite way to operate (which should continue during Field Day and any other activities..).

Dave, W6DPS (Operated PSK-31 as part of W6SCE)
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K5TED
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 05:55:28 PM »

I know of one other channelized band where operators routinely call over each other and carry on contacts on top of each other with certain glee. Maybe the bad actors would fit in there..
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KO7I
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Posts: 106




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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 09:52:59 PM »

Thank God it is to much work for the idiots to learn CW. 

Because of the problems stated, if I am field chairman at my club next year, the only thing the DIG modes will be used for is picking up the ARRL FD message. I gave our DIG guys a 12 hr slot on a 3 el yagi @ 40ft & a 40/80M fanned inverted vee at 70ft, netting us a whopping 150 qso's (12 - 13 qso's/hr). It was a wasted allocation of precious air time.

Don KO7i
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N2MG
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 03:57:02 AM »

Did you guys run into really BROAD signals - our digital guys had that complaint. Seems like a lot of noob behavior as well as downright "bad actors".

Mike N2MG
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N0IU
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 03:58:47 AM »

Only problem was, "those guys" showed up. The bad actors.

This is what happens when you try and put 10 lbs. of "manure" in a 5 lb. bag! The bottom line is that PSK is a really horrible mode for Field Day. On any other day, seeing 10-12 stations on the waterfall is considered to be crowded, but when there are literally hundreds of PSK stations all trying to use 3000Hz of bandwidth, that is just a recipe for disaster. The math doesn't work. There just isn't enough room.
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N3QE
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 05:43:23 AM »

I was extremely disappointed there wasn't more RTTY action, I had several easy FD RTTY QSO's and conditions on RTTY were perfectly straightforward. (I am a somewhat experienced RTTY contester). I struggled to make any PSK31 QSO's in the FD conditions on the same bands.

Remember, especially on the high bands, just because you hear station A call CQ, doesn't mean that station B can hear station A calling CQ. Band awareness in digital modes can be difficult to come by - this is not CW with QSK.

Tim.
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AJ4RW
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Posts: 568




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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 08:39:53 AM »

Quote
This is what happens when you try and put 10 lbs. of "manure" in a 5 lb. bag! The bottom line is that PSK is a really horrible mode for Field Day. On any other day, seeing 10-12 stations on the waterfall is considered to be crowded, but when there are literally hundreds of PSK stations all trying to use 3000Hz of bandwidth, that is just a recipe for disaster. The math doesn't work. There just isn't enough room.

AMEN to that. 

IMO, has anyone ever thought about using a secondary set of frequencies for the psk bunch.  On 20 meters as an example, it seems like the psk crowd likes to conjugate around 14070 to 14075 with an emphasis on 14070 to 14073.  Anything beyond that and you're interfering with another mode.  As time progresses, more and more amateurs are using psk especially the QRP and antenna restricted guys.  These frequencies are just a gentleman's agreement since no one owns a frequency but it does give direction to others wanting to work someone else using psk.  I know HRD gives 14080 as a second frequency for psk but now that goes into RTTY territory.  Maybe the psk guru's could designate another frequency set to alleviate the over crowding during contest.  This is just a suggestion.
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KB3LIX
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Posts: 1109




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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 01:28:10 PM »

Did you guys run into really BROAD signals - our digital guys had that complaint. Seems like a lot of noob behavior as well as downright "bad actors".

Mike N2MG

BROAD Signals...That is an UNDERSTATEMENT !
Lots of the "All knobs to the RIGHT" syndrome.

Lots of clowns. Ran into three that sent me their brag files along with
the proper FD exchange.
AND, why can't the PSK guys SPREAD OUT a bit.
It isn't like they cannot go above 7070 or 14070.

The PSK segments were downright CRAZY !
I went back to CW just for the sanity factor.
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K5TED
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Posts: 731




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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 06:51:40 PM »

I was extremely disappointed there wasn't more RTTY action, I had several easy FD RTTY QSO's and conditions on RTTY were perfectly straightforward. (I am a somewhat experienced RTTY contester). I struggled to make any PSK31 QSO's in the FD conditions on the same bands.

Remember, especially on the high bands, just because you hear station A call CQ, doesn't mean that station B can hear station A calling CQ. Band awareness in digital modes can be difficult to come by - this is not CW with QSK.

Tim.

Actually, Tim, it went more like this... :

Station A - CQ FD de K5TED
Station B - K5TED, K5TED de STATIONB
Station C - STATIONB, STATIONB de STATIONC
Station B - K5TED, K5TED de STATIONB, PSE AGN WITH EXCHANGE
Station A - STATIONB, STATIONB de K5TED, PSE CPY 1A STX
Station C - STATIONB, STATIONB de STATIONC, PSE CPY 1A MORONS
Station B - K5TED, K5TED de STATIONB, PSE AGN
Station C - K5TED, K5TED de STATIONC, STATIONC 1A MORONS QSL QSL QSL

ad nauseum...


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N9AOP
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Posts: 145




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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 06:46:35 PM »

That's a shame that this has to happen.  Being a CW man, I think that PSK is like watching paint dry.  But when trying to interest younger folks to ham radio the computer assisted digital modes peak their interest more than the old men pounding the brass and talking into the mike.  The condition of the PSK segment of the band this FD was a disaster.  On another note, when the reporter comes for a story and pic of your operation, please grab a couple of teenagers and put them in front of the radio.  I don't like to give the general public the impression that ham radio is an old mans hobby.
Art
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NQ3X
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Posts: 64




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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 05:01:32 AM »

I was also wondering what happened to RTTY.  PSK was ... interesting from here.  I would much rather have worked RTTY, but found few signals.

Bob WP2XX
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W4PC
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Posts: 290


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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 06:36:40 AM »

On another note, when the reporter comes for a story and pic of your operation, please grab a couple of teenagers and put them in front of the radio.  I don't like to give the general public the impression that ham radio is an old mans hobby.
Art

yes, I did Smiley

http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2013/06/0431356695_10997018_8col.jpg
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NK5G
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Posts: 102




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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 04:41:11 PM »

I am glad to see people having fun on PSK on field day, but PSK is not exactly a contest mode. (yea I know Field Day is not a "contest")

I too am disappointed that there is not more RTTY activity on Field Day. I am also surprised that there is not more. Judging from log entries on other contests RTTY has grown in popularity and with it's narrow bandwidth it is ideal for an event like Field Day.
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KB3LIX
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Posts: 1109




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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 05:59:12 PM »

I tried calling CQ on RTTY for about 1/2 hour but not
one reply.
Later, I tried trolling for RTTY Q's.
I tried 15, 20, 40 & 80.

That is a shame, RTTY is well suited for FD.
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