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Author Topic: If limited to only 2 HF bands which would you choose?  (Read 44379 times)
W4KVW
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Posts: 488




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« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 03:06:33 PM »

For me 17 & 20 are my Favorite bands.Great DX bands & I'm a DX chaser.Not much of a fan of 40 meters because it's over run with too many nets in the day time & broadcast stations at night which pretty much makes it useless for my style of operating. Wink   Cool    Smiley  {:>)

Clayton
W4KVW
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ZENKI
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Posts: 934




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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 08:18:02 PM »

If CW 30 and 20 meters
If SSB 40 and 30 meters

With 20 or 25 watts of power anything is possible!
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1661




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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2013, 08:07:10 AM »

Re: ZENKI  "with 20 or 25 watts of power anything is possible"  Huh

    Sounds as though you may be having problems with your rig or antenna system. Myself and a few others have found out above 25 watts and below 20 watts anything is possible also.       
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WB0KSL
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Posts: 94




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« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2013, 10:47:17 AM »

Quote
Yesterday at 08:18:02 PM Posted by: ZENKI

If CW 30 and 20 meters
If SSB 40 and 30 meters

With 20 or 25 watts of power anything is possible!

For 30 meter SSB, I think 1 milliwatt would be plenty Wink

73 de wb0ksl
John
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K2CMH
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Posts: 275




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« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2013, 07:19:31 PM »

>If SSB 40 and 30 meters

No SSB on 30 meters.
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KA2UUP
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Posts: 388




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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2013, 08:31:21 AM »

40 and 20 meters.
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WA7SGS
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Posts: 41




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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 10:08:10 PM »

40m and 20m offer the best 24/7 combination IMO.  If it was all about fun times and more of a challenge I'd say 160m and 15m! 

Rick
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AA4GA
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Posts: 118


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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2013, 06:20:47 AM »

If SSB 40 and 30 meters
SSB on 30 meters?  Not in the US, which is the location of the OP!  I'm not sure about elsewhere...

Quote
With 20 or 25 watts of power anything is possible!
No, some communications require more than 25 watts of power...but, since this is the QRP forum, one should presume the OP was referring to using 5 watts or less, as that is defined as the topic of discussion for this forum.
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W1JKA
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Posts: 1661




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« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2013, 07:37:31 AM »

 Re: AA4GA  reply #37

  As of this date I believe ZENKI's "Official" definition for QRP power both CW and SSB  patent registration is still pending at the U.S.Patent Office. Wink
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M0SVB
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2013, 12:52:30 AM »

40m and 17m would be my choice, although to effectively use 40m (local very high noise levels) I have to work portable.

Steve M0SVB
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VE3LYX
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« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2013, 04:00:48 AM »

80M &  40M
Don
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WB4TJH
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Posts: 191




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« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2013, 10:11:12 AM »

40 and 20 would be my choice for two QRP bands, ssb or cw But I would have to have THREE to be really  happy--I would include 30 meters for qrp  cw as well. With these 3 bands, I could  be satified.
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KB2FCV
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« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2013, 12:15:52 PM »

40/20 1st choice... 30/20 second choice.

40/20 gives great daytime / nighttime coverage... but 30 is also good daytime/nighttime. You can do pretty well with a small antenna that fits in your pocket.
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N1NQC
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« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2013, 01:28:02 PM »

 Hey All,

I'd take  15M and 40M  as choice #1 ( using the same 40 M antenna - NICE !) and 40M and 10M as choice #2.

Considering the FLEA power I use on 40M (1.5 or so W SSB) I have LOTS of NE U.S. contacts  during the DAY.On 15M Europe  has been "fairly easy" at .75 W SSB. 10M is MUCH more  of a challenge at .5 W SSB. Of course 10M is a much more "fussy" band, but when it's up it's GREAT.

K
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ZENKI
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Posts: 934




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« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2013, 06:06:25 PM »

Yeah it is,,, you wont have to  say "whats your name" "give me your name again, QRM" , "what did you ask me", " did he put it back to me" "i am losing you" Instead if you ran 25 watts as minimum especially on SSB you have a very high chance of completing a DX QSO into a place like Europe with complete success. I can run 25 watts on 40 meters and with a 1/4 vertical from my portable location and I can maintain my regulars QSO's into the USA without issue. If I reduced my power to 5 or 10 watts most stations  cant copy me its that simple. Please dont  give me the "its only 3db textbook nonsense" the point is that its effective and compensating for noise, propagation and other losses.

Being  a 5 watt QRP nazi is like  going to a gun fight with a slingshot because you think but are not sure if it will kill a man. We dont find QRP hunters going out shooting elephant and wild boars with a BB gun because they might  get lucky. They go out with the tools to get the job done. Power output is a tool that compensates for things like antenna losses, propagation losses and any other vagaries of propagation.  You guys are only arguing about QRP power because you have some Pavlovian  preconditioned belief set by some contest power limit that   low power QRP is gods  ruling at 5 watts. Why not make it 1 watt if you so tough and can do so well.

Any reasonable operator knows that on some bands even 100 watts and dipole is struggle. These  stations are in the majority so they know what reality is. Then you have QRP diehards arrogantly suggesting that 5 watts or 10 watts on SSB is  good enough. It is very far from the  reality of the vast majority of hams in the world. Reality is is just not on your side of the argument. I like low power operation and after 40 years of operation through extensive testing I am confident that if I go to any part of the planet  with a reasonable antenna I can make contacts, exchange names and report and have some chit chat with the majority of hams. I dont have to confine myself to  some magazine contest rule power limit.  Thats why I use 25 watts. Its the best bang for the buck versus power output  that can be achieved with battery power. Its also the power limit that can practically carried without  needing  a pack mule carrying batteries fuel and other accessories that spiral out of control catering for higher power.

This 5 watt QRP limit is just some imaginary  power level made to make life hard  and unpractical under most circumstances. If this power limit was arrived through technical analysis by doing extensive HF link calculations I would accept it. But where the argument falls apart  badly about the contest 5 watt power limit is the non consideration of effective radiated power. If I use a 5 watts into a 20dbi stacked array with X Erp I am legal. If I run 5 watts into a Magnetic loop I am legal despite the station with the stacked yagi running the equivalent of 500 watts of power before we consider the takeoff angle gain. Who is kidding who here with this moronic technical argument about 5 watt QRP  power being an absolute when this rule legalizes gain cheating if you dont run an amp  to equal the ERP of the antenna cheat.  You can clearly see how moronic  the contest rules are. Then to have stations cling to this power level  and argue about the supposed righteousness of this 5 watt limit exposes the flaws in their arguments. You can be an antenna gain cheat but you cant obtain the same gain equivalence  with an amplifier. This is the line of argument that has  been run here and its a nonsense argument about  religious belief not about fairness or about effectiveness. The whole objective is to produce an effective station. That can be antenna gain, QTH gain or more gain from running something like 25 watts. Its the principle that is used by every normal QRO ham in the world. Cant have a 60ft boom monobander why not use a 1kw amplifier to give myself some advantage? Why is it such a criminal thing  to do in the QRP community when saying going from 5 watts to 25 watts is still in the spirit of intention of low power and portability? Besides the overarching  principle should be about  communicating and getting the message through. Its not about your battle and failure because of your insistence about believing in what  the tooth fairy contest committee who tells  you that you a bad boy if you dont run 5 watts. This is the only argument  we getting  about  the 5 watt power limit. Its not about science its about religious  belief and what the grand poobah's told them to say and do not to do whats best for them.

What other stations do for enjoyment thats there business. But when your argument take on a religious  fervor that has no basis in science then  I cant accept those arguments. This is especially so when you and others try and push the QRP operating with something like 5 watts  as a successful endeavor that can be achieved  24/7 every day of the year. Next we will have government officials believing this BS  and telling hams that other hams can do it with 5 watts thats what the legal power level should be.

Just as you know what  antenna is a bad or good antenna I and many others know what a poor  power level is on SSB. You dont have to be a engineer to figure out how a modest increase in power from 5 watts to something like 25 watts can be. The problem is that most QRP operators dont have SSB portable QRP equipment that can run 5 watts or greater so they have never even tried say running 25 watts  portable. So then its no surprise that they react like you burning their bibles and stomping on it. Besides what have I got to gain by also sticking to some arbitary power level like 25 watts? if it  was not effective, is 25 my lucky number? No its not, the point is that it works and  you can enjoy ham radio. It does not matter whether you on a park bench, boat, hotel cruise boat, a student in a dorm, its a power level that can work well  with  any  antenna that a ham can imagine and come with. Thats the advantage it just works. Ham radio is about making things work and communicating not smashing your head into brick wall trying to reach mars  by raising your voice into the mic. Oh I hear them religous 5 watt QRP operators screaming and behaving like CB'er with their FT817s cranking knobs to the right because they dont have enough power. Shameful ignorant  behaviour when all they had to do is go out portable with station that at least ran 25 watts. You would not have to cause splatter or start behaving like CB'er thinking that turning up the mic gain is  turning your 5 watts into  25 watts. What the most popular accessory   that everyone is looking for  their FT817? Of course its a small portable amplifier that boosts it power to  something like 25 to 50 watts. Again more evidence based examples of the hard realities of  5 watt QRP operation that proves that for most  users its  largely a painful  and unrewarding experience.

Back a long time ago, when ham radio was just evolving and starting. Most hams were running  around  25 watts of power in doublet antennas. I used to listen to them  when I was SWL'er. Even when moving over to AM this was still a popular power. Back then dreaming about 25 to 40 watts on phone  was liking dreaming about 1500 watts from your Alpha. So the tradition of ham radio was almost founded on this power level which worked well for many station. A bit of nostalgia but this 25 watt experiment is  nothing new. Those who are not into QRP or throwing wires up a tree from a park bench, please try it. During a DX QSO call with 100 watts. Turn your power  down to 25 watts and see who comments! So far in the hundreds of regular DX stations worked none ever said, wow you gone down into the noise. They just carried on as if all my knobs and power output  was normal. The case rests when the  vast majority of hams cant notice the difference and it  works so well from a portable  location. Why would you want anything less than close to 100% reliability and effectiveness? Of course I respect your right to carry a .22 and run  5 watts thats your busines. I feel happier with my .45acp and my 25 watt manpack radio. I think I can do the job better without carrying a  barret light 50cal, 1kw amp and a ton of gas on a trailer. Its all  a matter of practicality and reality. KISS 25 watts!

Again the  QRP  5 watt argument fails  purely when you consider the effectiveness of  different communications modes.  Those who dont understand the effectiveness of one mode versus another would be advised to read the excellent article in December's QST by KE4PT. He is a diehard  QRP fanatic and in a unbiased technical article discusses the advantage of one mode versus another. Failing to consider the superiority of  CW over SSB is technical ignorance at its best. Sure nothing prevents you from trying and achieving pot luck.  If you want an advantage over CW just turn your power up to 25 watts job done! Got a really crap antenna turn the power up to 25 watts. Amazing how the world changes when you can get heard. Life is too short not to be heard, what good is talking if people cant understand the message. Life is long enough for operation  at the 25 watt portable level.

Ham companies please  make more  25 watt  radios that can also be operated from modern battery packs. I dont  need  a radio that runs off watch batteries or batteries mean to run kids toys. I need a battery pack that can run my radio for a day at 25 watts. I just got a new HF manpack radio, and its just superb.

http://www.codanradio.com/product/2110manpack/

This Codan HF radio  is just such a perfect radio for HF portable QRP operation. The DSP noise reduction just puts  so many radios to shame. The battery packs are excellent and the whole package is just so convenient.  The magic part about this radio is its power output, its 25 watts and works very well. I wonder why they chose 25 watts of output. Someone tell CODAN  they should have listened to the 5 watt  QRP contest committee because they know about these things. The military and all the professional HF users dont know what they talking about!  Now look at this nice Codan radio and compared it to the Ft817, external battery back, amplifier. Or even worst compare the Codan to a KX3 with amplifier and its huge mess of cables and  accessories.  Hams must like  radios that are impractical and a holy mess when compared to the practical design effectiveness of a HFmanpack radio with 25 watts of output power. Please open your minds, and use the tools and equipment that work rather than have  narrow minded views of equipment and techniques that work.

Re: ZENKI  "with 20 or 25 watts of power anything is possible"  Huh

    Sounds as though you may be having problems with your rig or antenna system. Myself and a few others have found out above 25 watts and below 20 watts anything is possible also.       
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