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Author Topic: Looking for Windows XP  (Read 13908 times)
W3AJJ
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Posts: 10




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« on: August 21, 2013, 07:39:47 AM »

I have an older Toshiba Satellite Vista laptop.  I want to remove Vista and do a clean install of Windows XP for all my non essential ham software but I am having no luck finding a new install disk. Any suggestions where to find one.
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N8AUC
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Posts: 82




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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 08:06:49 AM »

Look at http://www.buycheapsoftware.com/ms_products~subcategory~231.asp

I've dealt with them before, and they've treated me right.

73 de N8AUC
Eric

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W8JX
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 08:19:04 AM »

I have an older Toshiba Satellite Vista laptop.  I want to remove Vista and do a clean install of Windows XP for all my non essential ham software but I am having no luck finding a new install disk. Any suggestions where to find one.

This is not as wise as it sounds. My son had a Toshiba with Vista several years ago that he tried to use XP on but it never worked right because Toshiba never supported XP on it and it lacked proper drivers. With the start of Vista there was a new era in "intelligent" chip-sets that are not properly supported by XP.  I would suggest that you max out the RAM in your laptop and keep Vista on it. At 2gig of memory and above Vista does well. I still like Vista better than 7 is some ways.   
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
AA4PB
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 09:47:33 AM »

I did all of my software development on a Vista machine (a Dell) with dual monitors and never had an issue.
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W8JX
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 10:32:35 AM »

Also support for XP ends in less than 8 months on April 8 2014 so it is foolish to give up Vista for it. Vista will be supported till April 2017.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
KK6GNP
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 11:02:22 AM »

One of the things that slowed Vista down was that it's search indexer was constantly causing the hard drive to churn.  This is especially noticeable on Vista computers with not enough RAM in them because then you have the computer using the hard drive swap for memory too.  The result is that your hard drive light is always on, and the computer takes ages to get anything done.

Windows 7 would be a better direction to go if you are going to change the OS and want to stick with Windows.  It doesn't have the performance issues Vista does.

The single best upgrade you can do on an older computer is usually memory.  On 32bit operating systems, you should have 4GBs of memory for *decent* performance.  On 64bit computers today, I consider 6GB to be the minimum, and I put 8GB in most of them for my clients.  I run 16GB of high speed gaming memory in my current main desktop.
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73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
W8JX
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 11:33:16 AM »

One of the things that slowed Vista down was that it's search indexer was constantly causing the hard drive to churn.  This is especially noticeable on Vista computers with not enough RAM in them because then you have the computer using the hard drive swap for memory too.  The result is that your hard drive light is always on, and the computer takes ages to get anything done.

Windows 7 would be a better direction to go if you are going to change the OS and want to stick with Windows.  It doesn't have the performance issues Vista does.

The single best upgrade you can do on an older computer is usually memory.  On 32bit operating systems, you should have 4GBs of memory for *decent* performance.  On 64bit computers today, I consider 6GB to be the minimum, and I put 8GB in most of them for my clients.  I run 16GB of high speed gaming memory in my current main desktop.

A 32bit OS can only use about 3.2 gig of memory so not point in exceeding 3 gig really. Exceeding 8 gig on a 64 bit system is of no value unless you are running other virtual operating systems at same time. The biggest performance boost can be had by disabling letting windows manage swap file size automatically.  The use of a large swap file comes at a price. Not only slower performance but also as you increase size of swap file/virtual memory, you actual decrease the amount of physical memory available because more of it is allocated to track swap code pages. With 6 or more gig of memory, you really do not need a swap file 99% of the time.   
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KD0REQ
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 11:55:40 AM »

wasn't there a toggle in system tools for Vista that turned off disk indexing?  try that.
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KK6GNP
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 12:50:03 PM »

One of the things that slowed Vista down was that it's search indexer was constantly causing the hard drive to churn.  This is especially noticeable on Vista computers with not enough RAM in them because then you have the computer using the hard drive swap for memory too.  The result is that your hard drive light is always on, and the computer takes ages to get anything done.

Windows 7 would be a better direction to go if you are going to change the OS and want to stick with Windows.  It doesn't have the performance issues Vista does.

The single best upgrade you can do on an older computer is usually memory.  On 32bit operating systems, you should have 4GBs of memory for *decent* performance.  On 64bit computers today, I consider 6GB to be the minimum, and I put 8GB in most of them for my clients.  I run 16GB of high speed gaming memory in my current main desktop.

A 32bit OS can only use about 3.2 gig of memory so not point in exceeding 3 gig really. Exceeding 8 gig on a 64 bit system is of no value unless you are running other virtual operating systems at same time. The biggest performance boost can be had by disabling letting windows manage swap file size automatically.  The use of a large swap file comes at a price. Not only slower performance but also as you increase size of swap file/virtual memory, you actual decrease the amount of physical memory available because more of it is allocated to track swap code pages. With 6 or more gig of memory, you really do not need a swap file 99% of the time.  

Most older computers do not take odd numbers of memory (you need a triple channel motherboard). Put 4GB in to get the maximum amount, or just use 2GB. Memory is dirt-cheap these days too.

Setting the size of the swap on older computers is a good idea.  I haven't had to do that in so long I almost for got about it! Still if your computer is using your hard drive for memory, it's a ludicrous bottleneck.  This is especially true on older computers with well-used hard drives and/or 5400RPM drives (like a lot of older laptops use).

How much memory you use on your computer is a matter of how you use it.  I run three screens and can have multiple heavy apps running at the same time including videos games, movies and other things simultaneously.  My Win 8.1 machine uses almost 4GB's with just a bunch of browser tabs open and a few other programs. Exceeding 8GB is not a hard thing for me to do.  I do run a virtual machine, but it's an Ubuntu machine using only another 2GBs when I fire it up.  Photoshop and Premiere alone can use 8GBs, depending on what I'm doing.

Currently, most people do not need 16GBs of memory.  I do.  Smiley

« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 12:54:22 PM by JEEPESCAPE » Logged

73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
W8JX
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 09:52:52 AM »

You think you need 16 gig anyway. As far as odd memory amounts, most computers do indeed accept odd combos of memory and it is rare to find one that does not. Also when you hibernate you swap memory code to hard drive and the larger the amount of memory, the longer hibernation can take.  I have one old Vista 32 machine running 2 gig and another 2.5 gig. They both have been solid machines. I have a old Intel quad core power Vista 64 bit desktop machine with 8 gig that has never been reloaded since day one and is rock solid and still pretty quick even today.
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N0IU
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 10:05:33 AM »

I have a 100% legally bought and paid for version of XP Pro and I also wanted to put it on my my desktop that came with Vista after I bought it several years ago. Unfortunately, this is considered to be a "downgrade" by Microsoft and I eventually gave up trying. As Homer Simpson once said, "Trying is the first step towards failure!"

To be honest, I have been using Vista on my PC pretty much since Vista came out with no issues. I am not a "gamer" and pretty much all I use it for, other than all my ham radio programs, is email and surfing the web. As long as the computer boots up (and I know eventually it will quit), I see no reason to upgrade.

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W8JX
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Posts: 6666




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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 10:42:11 AM »

I have a 100% legally bought and paid for version of XP Pro and I also wanted to put it on my my desktop that came with Vista after I bought it several years ago. Unfortunately, this is considered to be a "downgrade" by Microsoft and I eventually gave up trying. As Homer Simpson once said, "Trying is the first step towards failure!"

To be honest, I have been using Vista on my PC pretty much since Vista came out with no issues. I am not a "gamer" and pretty much all I use it for, other than all my ham radio programs, is email and surfing the web. As long as the computer boots up (and I know eventually it will quit), I see no reason to upgrade.



If you are not running at least 2 gig of memory you will see a increase on performance if you go to that amount or more. Reducing swap file swap file size will help too.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
KK6GNP
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 02:10:09 PM »

You think you need 16 gig anyway. As far as odd memory amounts, most computers do indeed accept odd combos of memory and it is rare to find one that does not. Also when you hibernate you swap memory code to hard drive and the larger the amount of memory, the longer hibernation can take.  I have one old Vista 32 machine running 2 gig and another 2.5 gig. They both have been solid machines. I have a old Intel quad core power Vista 64 bit desktop machine with 8 gig that has never been reloaded since day one and is rock solid and still pretty quick even today.

I misspoke about using three sticks of ram in older P4 computers.  You do need to check the manual for the motherboard to verify it will work though.  Older Computers that will take an odd number of memory often step down into a single channel mode, so there's some performance loss in that case.  If you mismatch the memory, and the motherboard is ok with that, it will step the performance down to match the slowest memory you put in.  Not a super big deal on an ancient computer, but not optimal either.  Be certain your motherboard supports it though, or be sure you can return the memory you bought.  A lot of older computers use crappy proprietary motherboards of strange designs too.  I occasionally come across older cheap computers with only two memory slots.  Very common with portables even today.  I personally do not install odd numbers of memory, because there's no reason to with prices being so low.

I can take a screenshot of my computer using 11+ Gigs, without a virtual machine running, if you have a hard time believing it.  You probably don't use software such as Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Premiere, but they can use a ton of memory by themselves.  If I load even a medium -sized group of photos into photoshop for a batch job, I easily push past 8GBs of RAM between the OS baseline usage, and Photoshop.  I sometimes run Photoshop, Premiere and Soundbooth at the same time. Even using that much memory, I take no hit in performance, because my computer never uses the pagefile for memory.

SSD drives are the latest game-changer.  I use one for my system drive, gaming and Adobe software.  My computer boots up in a few seconds, and I don't wait for apps to start.  They are still fairly expensive compared to standard hard drives, but worth it for my use.

A lot of people bag on Vista, but once it has been completely updated, and given decent hardware specs, it works almost as well as a Windows 7 box does.  Too bad it took Microsoft so long to optimize it, but because of that we had a much better, leaner Windows 7.  I don't have to make tweaks to Windows 7 on a fresh install.  It works well even on a crappy 2GB netbook with an Atom processor and a 5400rpm drive.



« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 02:23:16 PM by JEEPESCAPE » Logged

73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
KK6GNP
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 02:22:08 PM »

For fellow computer nerds, here's a picture of my current build: http://i.imgur.com/Q5zgF.jpg

I've been building my own gaming computers since the 90's, overclocking the first generation Celeron and Pentiums. This was the first time I used a full size tower case.  Even though it is huge, I won't go back to a mid tower again until the tech shrinks down to nothing.  Not only is the cooling far superior, but having the room to get my hands in there and work on it is priceless.  Also has hot-swap SATA ports, and some cable management built in.

Gaming computers and case modding is one of those hobbies where you can go as deep as you want with the money spent. I'm not into mods or heavy overclocking these days.  I always pick a target and go for the best bang for the money.  I spend a little over $2000 on this with most of the money in the graphics cards.  I really dig the nearly silent liquid cooling for the CPU too.
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73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
K4RKY
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Posts: 59




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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 04:01:03 PM »

Think outside the box that MS Windows has created..... Linux!
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Rick ^i^
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