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Author Topic: Tilt mount for mast mounted verticals?  (Read 3773 times)
WA2ELZ
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Posts: 15




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« on: August 21, 2013, 04:40:20 PM »

Hello,
I want to get back on the air after a long absence. However, my new location property is very small with high voltage areal wires running along the back yard property line. There are city restrictions where antennas can be mounted. The small two side areas and back yard are OK, but not the front yard. I am also near the ocean in hurricane alley. The good news is that I am NOT in an HOA area. 
I want to mount my GAP Titan antenna. It's been sitting in the back yard for about one year while I try and figure out a safe mounting location. I am looking for a mast mounted tilt over device to mount the antenna. A one man quick lowering scheme is a must have should high winds threaten the area. The tilt mount or hinge, is not on the ground, but on top of a 10 foot 1.25+ OD schedule 40 pipe. This raises antenna counter poise to the recommended roof to antenna clearance. Additionally, it's purpose is to avoid adding the mast length to the overall swing radius. If the mast and antenna were pivoted on the ground, contact with about 14,000 volts will occur. Moving the pivot point to the top of the 10 foot mast will provide better than 12 feet clearance to power lines. This is not a permanent solution, I must last only until a cat 5 blows everything away or the sea level raises Shocked

All suggestions welcome
Robert WA2ELZ
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K2MK
Member

Posts: 399




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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 05:44:09 AM »

Hi Robert,

Robust hinge mechanisms (Tipper Juniors) are available from Penninger Radio. They are very high quality. Their tippers are machined aluminum and won't wobble side to side while tipping. The backplate could easily be clamped to a mast. You would have to figure out how to attach your antenna to the tilting aluminum tube. Locking in the upright position is quick and easy with 4 screws. These could easily be changed to thumb screws if desired. Tipper Juniors are available in various sizes but they ain't cheap. Since you'll want to tilt ten to twenty degrees below horizontal you will need to verify with the manufacturer if this is possible.

http://www.penningerradio.com/index.asp

73,
Mike K2MK
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KH2G
Member

Posts: 306




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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 06:42:59 PM »

At Harbor Freight you can get one of the trailer wheels that pivots out of the way when hauling. these can be easily modified to take care of your situation and they are not wallet breaking. It would bolt to a cemented in mast (10 ft).
Regards
Dick KH2G
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W9GB
Member

Posts: 2626




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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 09:55:30 AM »

Quote
I want to mount my GAP Titan antenna. It's been sitting in the back yard for about one year while I try and figure out a safe mounting location. I am looking for a mast mounted tilt over device to mount the antenna. A one man quick lowering scheme is a must have should high winds threaten the area.
Robert -

I would NOT recommend this antenna for a Tilt-over system.  
I have the salvaged aluminum tubing (only half) from a local amateur's damaged GAP Titan,
mounted in this manner, stored in my garage (future antenna projects).

IF you proceed with this approach:

1. You MUST guy the antenna above the middle point of antenna.  The antenna is wind load "top heavy"
2. Use aluminum or galvanized tubing of sufficient thickness to support in wind AND support antenna when being lowered.
===
Penninger Radio manufactures a variety of Aluminum assemblies, masts and TipperTM.  
The Aluminum tubing and assemblies used is lightweight and strong (proper thickness).
http://www.penningerradio.com/
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 10:00:13 AM by W9GB » Logged
KC4MOP
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Posts: 743




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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 11:41:32 AM »

I had a GAP that broke from ice load and wind. Useless POS!!
Did your thoughts about amateur radio hit you before or after you bought the present QTH? The HV wires are not going to nice to live next to.
If they are big towers and transmission lines they might be pretty clean...but not for your local utility distributing power in your location. Insulators, Wooden cross members, lousy connections are good noise makers on a local system.
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20611




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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 11:51:19 AM »

Robert, I think I remember you from 2m AM days in the 60s, in NJ-?

Anyway, I've installed several GAP Titan-DX verticals and would not do what you suggest.

What I'd do, which would allow the antenna to work better, survive in the wind, and stay away from the high tension lines is mount it on a tripod or short roof tower on the roof of the house and guy it using rope guys connected about midway up the antenna (which GAP does recommend).  The attached guys will help assure survivability in strong winds (unless your roof blows off) and there'd be no need to tilt it over.

Frankly, knowing that antenna as well as I do, I doubt tilting it over would make it any more immune to wind damage than just leaving it upright.  In fact, it may be worse if tilted over (unless it's literally laying on the ground), as it won't be balanced.  The 80" long "counterpoise" radials that run around the base are also likely worse off if tilted over.

It does require rope guys for anything but the most benign weather.
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WA2ELZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 11:13:02 PM »

Robert, I think I remember you from 2m AM days in the 60s, in NJ-?

Anyway, I've installed several GAP Titan-DX verticals and would not do what you suggest.

What I'd do, which would allow the antenna to work better, survive in the wind, and stay away from the high tension lines is mount it on a tripod or short roof tower on the roof of the house and guy it using rope guys connected about midway up the antenna (which GAP does recommend).  The attached guys will help assure survivability in strong winds (unless your roof blows off) and there'd be no need to tilt it over.

Frankly, knowing that antenna as well as I do, I doubt tilting it over would make it any more immune to wind damage than just leaving it upright.  In fact, it may be worse if tilted over (unless it's literally laying on the ground), as it won't be balanced.  The 80" long "counterpoise" radials that run around the base are also likely worse off if tilted over.

It does require rope guys for anything but the most benign weather.

Hello Steve,

Yes we did communicate on 2 m in the 60's and later in the early 1970's, always something interesting to talk about; thank you for great QSO's.
High winds potently reach a cat 5 velocity but not very often, if ever. Hurricane Wilma reached a cat 3 (111 MPH to 129 Mph) over Boca Raton in 2005. The rage continued for hours, however no damage to the house.
It would greatly simplify mounting the GAP antenna if it could survive these winds. AS you indicate, A small roof mounted tripod could be used. One mounted on the screen room roof would clear the power lines. However, the roof is only a few years old and I dread drilling holes in the roof.
If using the tilt method, the counterpoise would be removed before lowering and the top of the antenna would touch ground, just to respond to questions on this issue.
I also have had three severe lighting strikes blow out my TV LNA, my QS1R once and the HF LNA once since 2005. The last strike lit up my back yard. I have buried radials and witnessed an eerie light show from beneath the ground. It scared the crap out of wife. The GAP antenna eliminates the perceived buried radial hazard.

Thank you for your insight,
Robert WA2ELZ
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WA2ELZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 11:49:19 PM »

I had a GAP that broke from ice load and wind. Useless POS!!
Did your thoughts about amateur radio hit you before or after you bought the present QTH? The HV wires are not going to nice to live next to.
If they are big towers and transmission lines they might be pretty clean...but not for your local utility distributing power in your location. Insulators, Wooden cross members, lousy connections are good noise makers on a local system.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the antenna. The elements are never kind.
I was first licensed in 1958, I moved to Boca Raton in 2005 after 30 years located in West Orange NJ. I used a home brew 2 element quad in NJ, never had wind, lighting, ice or snow problems with my quad. Great antenna. I still have the antenna, but its in the garage. I think that the elements would quickly destroy the quad. The strong U/V would turn the fiber glass to dust, the high winds would rip the conductors and surely lighting would get it.
I do have a 40 foot telescoping heavy duty mast with a rotor at the base. Its been working for about ten years without problems. I use it for TV, reception is about 100 miles and crystal clear HDTV.
I could re-purpose the mast for VHF or even HF if needed. But I first want to try out the GAP antenna.
 
When I first move here, I put up my HF2V antenna. It worked ok. Noise from the power lines was low and buried in the noise. The HF2V fed an HF low noise high output LNA to my QS1R. The problem with the HF2V is that it was mounted where my wife wanted a patio. She plucked the thing up and that is when my search for a better antenna began. It all worked previously. 

Robert WA2ELZ
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W7HBP
Member

Posts: 166




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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 07:35:30 AM »

I have a GAP Titan DX88 and I have it on a tilt over mast set up I made. I cemented in a 1 1/4" conduit/pipe, 10 feet long. Not the thinwall tubing, this is heavy like water pipe, but made for electrical. Threaded on each end. I cemented it in 3 feet, to have 7 feet exposed. I have another section of the same pipe parallel to the other (another 10 foot section) and it extends above the one in the ground by 4 feet. At the top, I have it hinged to tilt over. Hing is at the top of the cemented in pipe.  I added a saddle ring on the bottom of the tilt over section if I wanted to add a counterweight. After I tilt it up, I install a large U bolt at the bottom, its done. Takes about 2 minutes to tilt over. I have an anchor for the saddle to secure it. The 40 meter radials stays put, no need to remvoe them.  I have a saddle with a sleeve in the ground where the tilted over section can rest. I also have it guyed with 3 sections of rope above the "GAP" attatched with 3 stainless screw anchors. One is in the concrete for the saddle. I have to remove one guy rope to tilt it over. Then I can bolt the antenna into the saddle with parts I bought from DX engineering. The entire system is so slick, sanitary and clean looking. Should easily survive strong winds with my guys, but can be tilted over and secured in about 2 minutes. I can take pictures of the set up this weekend, if you are interested, drop me an email (same one on QRZ page) and I can email ya pixs.
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ARRL Life Member|QRZ Life Member
WB2WIK
Member

Posts: 20611




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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 09:57:38 AM »

Robert, I think I remember you from 2m AM days in the 60s, in NJ-?

Anyway, I've installed several GAP Titan-DX verticals and would not do what you suggest.

What I'd do, which would allow the antenna to work better, survive in the wind, and stay away from the high tension lines is mount it on a tripod or short roof tower on the roof of the house and guy it using rope guys connected about midway up the antenna (which GAP does recommend).  The attached guys will help assure survivability in strong winds (unless your roof blows off) and there'd be no need to tilt it over.

Frankly, knowing that antenna as well as I do, I doubt tilting it over would make it any more immune to wind damage than just leaving it upright.  In fact, it may be worse if tilted over (unless it's literally laying on the ground), as it won't be balanced.  The 80" long "counterpoise" radials that run around the base are also likely worse off if tilted over.

It does require rope guys for anything but the most benign weather.

Hello Steve,

Yes we did communicate on 2 m in the 60's and later in the early 1970's, always something interesting to talk about; thank you for great QSO's.
High winds potently reach a cat 5 velocity but not very often, if ever. Hurricane Wilma reached a cat 3 (111 MPH to 129 Mph) over Boca Raton in 2005. The rage continued for hours, however no damage to the house.
It would greatly simplify mounting the GAP antenna if it could survive these winds. AS you indicate, A small roof mounted tripod could be used. One mounted on the screen room roof would clear the power lines. However, the roof is only a few years old and I dread drilling holes in the roof.
If using the tilt method, the counterpoise would be removed before lowering and the top of the antenna would touch ground, just to respond to questions on this issue.
I also have had three severe lighting strikes blow out my TV LNA, my QS1R once and the HF LNA once since 2005. The last strike lit up my back yard. I have buried radials and witnessed an eerie light show from beneath the ground. It scared the crap out of wife. The GAP antenna eliminates the perceived buried radial hazard.

Thank you for your insight,
Robert WA2ELZ

Removing the counterpoise isn't such a small task, neither is installing it again.  If you're "in a hurry," I think it can't be done "in a hurry." Wink  And I sure wouldn't want to do it several times a year when there's a hurricane or tropical storm threat.

And in any case, the Titan-DX really needs guy ropes, anyway, for just "normal" survivability.  We don't get hurricanes here, but we occasionally get 70 mph winds and I've never seen a Titan-DX that wasn't rope guyed midway up survive those.  You end up with two Titan-DX/2 antennas. Cheesy
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9910




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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 10:40:01 AM »

I have a Gap Voyager up. It sits on a 2 bolt stand that is pushed into the ground. to drop you remove one bolt and use the other to pivot it down.  the voyager is about 46 feet tall and really bends when going up or down.  we use a 16 foot 2 x 4 with a v notch in the end to help hold the antenna  on the way down.  you can do it by your self, but I would not.  Mine has 2 sets of double Dacron guys.and the help a lot.  if you don't have room for 3 guys, think about using 2 rigid guys, like as an example 2 fiberglass poles attached on one end to the Gap and at the other end into the roof at 2 spots. sort of like a horizontal V  that will not allow the antenna to move in any direction. it will work too
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KF7VXA
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Posts: 459




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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 03:47:27 PM »

I have a Gap Challenger and it's far easier to lower than any of their other models.
How it compares with other models as far a transmitting and hearing goes, I have no idea.
I do know that I use a dipole for 6,10 and 15 meters and pick up a little over 1-S unit. It works great on 20 and 40 and as most multi band verticals, decent on 80 meters, but nowhere as good as on 20 and 40.

73's John KF7VXA
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