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Author Topic: Do some people just not listen?  (Read 16199 times)
KA0HVE
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Posts: 117




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« on: August 29, 2013, 09:44:09 AM »

I'm not complaining because at the time each of these happened it was sort of humorous.

I'm tuning around on 40 meters last night and I hear 2 CW signals almost zero beat with each other and both calling CQ CQ CQ ... almost in unison.  After a while I wondered if they ever stopped to listen.  They were both loud enough that I'm fairly certain they would have heard each other.

Then this morning I sent QRL? a couple times and as soon as I begin sending CQ so did another station right on top of me that had to be close enough to hear me.

A couple nights ago a ham sent CQ about a dozen times followed by his call sign 2 or 3 times, paused for not quite a second and began all over again.  Then he did it again.  What he didn't notice was that someone was responding to him but he never paused long enough to listen.

I know that propagation problems can cause this to happen occasionally but I suspect at least 2 of these were due to poor operator practice.

Anyway, I thought these were funny but maybe you had to be there. Smiley
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 10:04:50 AM by KA0HVE » Logged
KH2BR
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Posts: 103




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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 10:45:46 AM »

They really cant hear. Its due to many reasons. Running high power and the other is running low power and one cant hear the other. Antenna orientation, or using a vertical. I did a test one time, I was on 20 meters calling cq with 1kw feeding a vertical and no answer from anyone. So, I tried a remote receiver in spain. Wouldn't you know it, I had a pileup going and didn't even know it. This is the QRP forum, Low power means that many will not hear you unless you are QRO. That is what is so challenging to make contacts with low power.
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 13341




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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 11:30:29 AM »

Quote from: KA0HVE

I'm tuning around on 40 meters last night and I hear 2 CW signals almost zero beat with each other and both calling CQ CQ CQ ... almost in unison.  After a while I wondered if they ever stopped to listen.  They were both loud enough that I'm fairly certain they would have heard each other.



Not necessarily.  40m will almost always have a skip zone at night (and usually during the day
as well, except at the peak of the sunspot cycle.)  So if they were 50 miles apart but 1000 miles
away they would both have strong signals at your location, but wouldn't be able to hear
each other.


Quote

Then this morning I sent QRL? a couple times and as soon as I begin sending CQ so did another station right on top of me that had to be close enough to hear me.


Are you judging by their actual location, or their signal strength?  If they are running higher
power (even if not a full kW) and have a high local noise level then it is quite possible that
they didn't hear you.  Of course, they also might not have been listening for more than a second
before they transmitted - that happens as well.

And some operators assume that any station not S9+ is just background noise to be ignored,
while others aren't using QSK so can't hear another signal on at the same time.


Quote

A couple nights ago a ham sent CQ about a dozen times followed by his call sign 2 or 3 times, paused for not quite a second and began all over again.  Then he did it again.  What he didn't notice was that someone was responding to him but he never paused long enough to listen.


That happens a lot during contests - the operator assumes that any response will come
right when they finish, and one second is long enough to know that there is no such response
in most cases.  (One secret of contesting is to learn how critical exact timing is, because
that is what the other operator is expecting.)  It also helps to hold "your" frequency -
someone else may start transmitting if you leave it empty for too long.  And again, if the
other station is too weak to hear well over the local QRN and QRM, then they won't
consider it as a "response".


Yes, there are some operators out there who don't always listen before they transmit, or
who won't acknowledge a weak response, etc.  It's always frustrating to respond to a CQ
and hear the other station calling again before you can finish your callsign.  But in my
experience it is more likely to be due to power differential, local noise, or propagation
differences rather than specific intent on the part of the other operator.  At least I'm
willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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KA0HVE
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Posts: 117




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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 11:50:19 AM »

You're probably right.  I knew there were possible explanations for these occurrences but 3 of them this close together seemed a bit odd and also added to the humor.  The two operators calling CQ in unison on nearly the same frequency was particularly interesting to me.
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KU4UV
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 05:45:41 PM »

No, the simple answer is people sometimes don't listen.  A prime example of this is during such events as major contests/Field Day.  If people would just shut up or pause long enough between their "CQ", they might actually be able to hear a station calling them.  This past Field Day, there were a number of stations that wouldn't pause long enough after calling, "CQ Field Day" to hear a station answering their call.  I would respond to their CQ with my callsign, only to unkey the mic and hear them re-sending their CQ.  If they would have just shut up long enough or stopped hitting the call button on the keyer, they might actually have been able to hear a station responding to them.  This problem is most noticable on phone, but I have heard it on CW also.  Oh well.

73,
KU4UV
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GILGSN
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Posts: 207




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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 08:25:37 PM »

The worst is when I hear contesters calling non-stop with one-second pauses on QRP calling frequencies, hours on end. Holding their frequency? It's not their frequency, it everyone's frequency! The lack of respect is appalling.

Gil.
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N9AOP
Member

Posts: 149




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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 09:31:44 AM »

Part of the problem with what KU4UV is saying is that there are many new groups going out to FD and that's what they are--new.  No elmers or folks experienced with FD or any type of contest.  I heard at least 3 of those in my state that needed mentoring very badly.  I asked one local club that was going to do FD who was going to be their 'brass pounder' and they wanted to know what that was.- - -sad
Art
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AD6KA
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Posts: 2238




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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 02:48:43 PM »

No, the simple answer is people sometimes don't listen.  

X2........ and/or "many people don't listen".

When I was new, an excercise my Elmer had me do was
to start at the bottom of a band, tuning upwards VERY slowly,
and try to ID every call that I could hear a signal from.
It's still a fun thing to do when the bands are dead, and EXCELLENT
practice for contesting. And for goodness sake invest in a good
set of cans (headphones). Ops who only listen through speakers
(except for local ragchews) don't know what they are missing.
There is a reason that God gave us two ears but only one mouth!  Grin

I also think that those of us who started as SWL's, where we listened
to hours of static waiting for a station ID, had a leg up on folks
walking straight into the hobby, and HF in particular.

I'd go as far as to say that listening in everyday life is becoming
a lost art, sad to say. Everything today is "me,me,me, I,I,I"
73, Ken  AD6KA
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KU4UV
Member

Posts: 376




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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 04:14:31 PM »

No, the simple answer is people sometimes don't listen.  

X2........ and/or "many people don't listen".

When I was new, an excercise my Elmer had me do was
to start at the bottom of a band, tuning upwards VERY slowly,
and try to ID every call that I could hear a signal from.
It's still a fun thing to do when the bands are dead, and EXCELLENT
practice for contesting. And for goodness sake invest in a good
set of cans (headphones). Ops who only listen through speakers
(except for local ragchews) don't know what they are missing.
There is a reason that God gave us two ears but only one mouth!  Grin

I also think that those of us who started as SWL's, where we listened
to hours of static waiting for a station ID, had a leg up on folks
walking straight into the hobby, and HF in particular.

I'd go as far as to say that listening in everyday life is becoming
a lost art, sad to say. Everything today is "me,me,me, I,I,I"
73, Ken  AD6KA

Well said.  I grew up listening for distant stations on an old $10 AM transistor radio under the covers at night when I was a kid of only 6 or 7 years old in the late 70's-early 80's here in Kentucky.  I would later move on to SWL'ing in middle and high school, so I can relate to having to LISTEN closely for station ID's, etc.  All good points that you made.

73,
Michael KU4UV
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AA4GA
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Posts: 120


WWW

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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 06:47:41 AM »

The worst is when I hear contesters calling non-stop with one-second pauses on QRP calling frequencies, hours on end. Holding their frequency? It's not their frequency, it everyone's frequency! The lack of respect is appalling.
They are not holding the frequency, they are occupying it, trying to get people to call them.  The one-second pause is when stations call....why not work them?  They don't hear anyone using the frequency, and I can assure you that most contesters have better RX capability than most QRPers, due to better rigs (often) and better antennas (very often). 
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KA0HVE
Member

Posts: 117




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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 10:02:17 AM »

They are not holding the frequency, they are occupying it, trying to get people to call them.

It came across at just 'hogging' the frequency.

Quote
The one-second pause is when stations call....why not work them?  They don't hear anyone using the frequency,

They can't hear anyone using the frequency because they're constantly sending and never really listening.  That's my point.  I heard someone trying to work him and he wouldn't shut up long enough to hear them.

Quote
and I can assure you that most contesters have better RX capability than most QRPers, due to better rigs (often) and better antennas (very often).

Are you saying QRPers can't be contesters???  Many dedicated contesters, including QRPers, have better RX capabilities than just about anyone not into contesting.  But remember, this wasn't during a contest.
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KU4RN
Member

Posts: 5




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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 07:35:27 PM »

I may have been that person sending back,  I took it as they were unable to hear me.  I was using 5 watts and they were a DX station.  Later I was attempting a call from dx station and dx station was attempting to get my call sign, another high powered station started stepping all over me.  The dx station kept requesting me to send call sign again, QRO station just started trying to get him to send to him call signs not even close.  He may not have been able to hear me but he could hear DX station. 
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GILGSN
Member

Posts: 207




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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 08:04:11 PM »

Quote
why not work them?

Because getting a 599 73 means nothing to me... Because they won't tell me about the town they live in, the gear they use, profession and hobbies, regular conversation.
They want to contest, fine. But their contesting hobby prevents me from enjoying mine. What if I was tuning on top of them with 1500W constantly? They wouldn't like it, right? What if everybody not contesting was doing that? Get the picture? It's like some people who when not driving are the nicest human beings; put them in a car, they become assholes.
No, I won't work them, because I think contests are weird and stupid, and that's my right. But I don't bother any of them on the air because it's illegal, and why bother. I wish they would return the same courtesy to me.

Gil.
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W1JKA
Member

Posts: 1773




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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2013, 04:26:48 AM »

People not listening/contest? I believe in the old ham adage "if you can't join them,leave them". Both are a fact of ham life especially on weekends and not going any where soon.This is why the powers that be gave us the 30m and other options,a place to go and play radio between your Saturday chores and Sunday obligations.No real reason to sit around and bitch about the apparent deaf mutes and contesters.Of course if you are not into cw or not set up for 30 meters there's always the old spin your VFO knob option.
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GILGSN
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Posts: 207




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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 02:39:24 PM »

Quote
This is why the powers that be gave us the 30m

Thank God for that.. Not everyone has 30m though. I have it at home but not when camping. So when I got out for a week-end camping, I just have to hope there isn't a major contest I didn't hear about... If that happens I'm just SOL.

Gil.
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