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Author Topic: Do some people just not listen?  (Read 17158 times)
W1JKA
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Posts: 1822




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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2013, 04:30:48 PM »

Re: GILGSN

  The last time the bands got that bad on a camping trip I just got out my flashlight and practiced my blinker light morse with the yls over in the next tent site,
.--  .-  -.  -    ...  ---  --  .     .--  ..  -.  .    ..--..
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KU4UV
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 07:34:35 PM »

People not listening/contest? I believe in the old ham adage "if you can't join them,leave them". Both are a fact of ham life especially on weekends and not going any where soon.This is why the powers that be gave us the 30m and other options,a place to go and play radio between your Saturday chores and Sunday obligations.No real reason to sit around and bitch about the apparent deaf mutes and contesters.Of course if you are not into cw or not set up for 30 meters there's always the old spin your VFO knob option.

Yes, or find something other than ham radio operating to do on the weekends.  I rather enjoy fishing and the outdoors.

KU4UV
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AA4GA
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2013, 06:27:00 AM »

Quote
and I can assure you that most contesters have better RX capability than most QRPers, due to better rigs (often) and better antennas (very often).

Are you saying QRPers can't be contesters???  Many dedicated contesters, including QRPers, have better RX capabilities than just about anyone not into contesting.  But remember, this wasn't during a contest.
I am absolutely not saying QRPers can't be contesters.  I know, I are one...I am currently 100% QRP, and contesting is one of my major radio activities.  What I said was that *most* QRPers do not have the best rigs or antennas.  Many do, however.  I currently have a very good RX, but only an OK antenna.

As far as your OP, i was not addressing that, I was addressing the anti-contest comments from "GILGSN", who apparently doesn't really understand how contesters operate, but only has his idea based on his (erroneous) conclusions he has arrived at by observation. 

As a contester of approximately 30 years I know "GILGSN" is incorrect in his characterization of contest operations.
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KA0HVE
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2013, 06:57:59 AM »

What I said was that *most* QRPers do not have the best rigs or antennas.  Many do, however.

Not to be nit picky but most hams in general (QRPers and non-QRPers) don't have the best rigs or antennas.  Maybe it's just me but it bothers me to limit this in your statements to QRPers.  Not a big deal though so don't take it wrong.
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AA4GA
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 07:00:04 AM »

Quote
why not work them?
But their contesting hobby prevents me from enjoying mine.
Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the bandswitch/VFO/mode switch your rig most likely has.  If others contesting "prevents" you from enjoying your time on the air, that is solely because you choose to let it do so.

Quote
What if I was tuning on top of them with 1500W constantly? They wouldn't like it, right?
Actually, that happens a lot...and instead of whining, contesters deal with it.  And it's often not as effective as the intentional-QRMers believe it is either, BTW.  Not to mention that intentional QRM is an illegal act in the US, while contesting is not.

Quote
It's like some people who when not driving are the nicest human beings; put them in a car, they become assholes.
Or get internet access and post in forums.

Quote
No, I won't work them, because I think contests are weird and stupid, and that's my right.
Obviously, it is your right.  To me, that choice seems weird and stupid - almost as much as posting in an amateur radio forum without posting one's callsign:  QRA?

Quote
But I don't bother any of them on the air because it's illegal, and why bother. I wish they would return the same courtesy to me.
What you don't understand is that the same courtesy is being extended to you.  No contester I know is going to start calling on top of an existing QSO - if he hears it.  The problem is, because of QRP and/or poor antennas or condx, a station may not be heard.  Now, if you expect 14.060 +/- to remain unused until some QRP operator decides to come along and occupy the frequency, your expectations are unrealistic.  Contesters don't expect to have any frequencies reserved for them, and in fact are generally discriminated against because the "WARC" bands are not used for contesting.  But, you know what, I've never heard a contester complain about that because they realize there are people who don't enjoy that mode of operation and are happy keep those frequencies contest free so that the "anti-contesters" have a place to escape to.

I can't tell you how many times (when I used to operate phone and QRO) this scenario would play out:  I tune a band during a contest looking for someplace to call CQ and find an apparently clear frequency.  I ask (multiple times) if the frequency is occupied, with no response.  Start CQing - and often work a station or two - and finally someone will come on and say "Fred, some contester is calling on top of you" or "AA4GA, the frequency is busy".  I, and most contesters, would normally move on, but come on!  Why did you not respond when I inquired?  From where I sit, much of the unpleasantness non-contesters find during contests is self-inflicted!

Which group appears to be the most reasonable?

Perhaps I'm an odd duck, because I'm both a contester and a QRPer, but I don't see a problem with coexistence at all.
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AA4GA
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 07:11:44 AM »

Not to be nit picky but most hams in general (QRPers and non-QRPers) don't have the best rigs or antennas.  Maybe it's just me but it bothers me to limit this in your statements to QRPers. 
No, I agree with that - it's not just QRPers.  But my point concerns two tendencies:  First, a fair percentage of QRPers use simpler rigs, often kit- or home-made, that are not as good performers as even some of the most basic commercial gear.  Second, it seems there are a fair percentage of QRPers who actually handicap themselves further with inefficient antennas, and are proud of that.  These people even go so far as to say that using a better antenna is not within the spirit of QRP operation. 
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W1JKA
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2013, 08:39:01 AM »

Re; AA4GA  reply # 20

  As an avid non contest QRPer I have to agree mostly with your post, how ever I think your last sentence about " a better antenna is not within the spirit of QRP operation " is a bit of a stretch. I have never read in any ham related forum, magazines, heard on the air or else where that any QRPer has intentionally desired to use an antenna with any less efficiency than what he may be able to erect within the limits of his finances, QTH conditions, abilities or other outside restrictions.
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AA4GA
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2013, 09:30:46 AM »

I think your last sentence about " a better antenna is not within the spirit of QRP operation " is a bit of a stretch. I have never read in any ham related forum, magazines, heard on the air or else where that any QRPer has intentionally desired to use an antenna with any less efficiency than what he may be able to erect within the limits of his finances, QTH conditions, abilities or other outside restrictions.
I may have misstated a bit - I do think most folks are trying to put up the best antenna they can, but there is also definitely a group out there who purposely use inefficient antennas, are proud of it, and say that using larger, better antennas is not in the spirit of QRP. 

It's not the easiest thing to search for, but here's one example I Googled up from W2LJ's blog...turns out I actually made a comment on that post also!   http://w2lj.blogspot.com/2012/10/enough-with-nitrates-already.html   And I've seen comments that W2LJ is talking about on a fairly regular basis.

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KX8N
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 04:31:41 AM »

Part of the problem with what KU4UV is saying is that there are many new groups going out to FD and that's what they are--new.  No elmers or folks experienced with FD or any type of contest.  I heard at least 3 of those in my state that needed mentoring very badly.  I asked one local club that was going to do FD who was going to be their 'brass pounder' and they wanted to know what that was.- - -sad
Art

So did you mentor them when you heard them making mistakes, or did you just roll your eyes and not say anything? People complain about new hams who don't know what their doing, but it seems like nobody wants to actually help them learn. That's always someone else's job. If we, as experienced hams, would step up and guide some of these people that don't know what they're doing, then eventually they WILL know.
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