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Author Topic: Kenwood TS-480 vs Icom IC-7000  (Read 32647 times)
K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 10:22:21 AM »

The 7000 has a reputation for being a hot running rig tempature  wise.

I have often wondered why Hams worry about "Hot". Do they think Icom Engineers do not consider temperature when designing a radio? Do Icom engineers just throw the parts together hoping that everything gets cooled properly? Of course not. They engineer radios to get proper ventilation for all parts.

Then along comes Joe Ham. He puts his hand on his Icom 706, finds that is warmer than other radios he has used and then tells everyone he knows that the Icom 706 gets too hot. The rumor gets so prevalent that it scares Icom. What do they do? They put a Temperature gauge into the successor of the 706 AKA the Icom 7000.

Does this cure the problem? No, because Joe Ham insists on touch feely his 7000 and once again tells everyone he knows the 7000 runs too hot. The Icom 7000 is a small radio. It is going to run hotter than bigger radios, however the cooling has been properly designed to alleviate the problem of being small.

Now I have owned a 706MKIIG and still own a Icom 7000. I run RTTY many times on my 7000 because of its superior TWIN Peak filters on FSK. I have never worried about temperature. I don't constantly touch the radio nor do I keep looking at the Temp gauge. I have owned a Icom 706 and a 706MKIIG and a 7000. None of them have failed because of heat or anything else.

Now if you want to talk about heat and Hamradio, take a look at my picture on QRZ.com. I can not operate these babies in the summer time because my Air Conditioning can not keep up with them. In the Winter I use them to heat the Shack.  Cheesy Of course I am talking about AM vintage gear......

Stan K9IUQ

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KK6GNP
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Posts: 158




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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 11:54:33 AM »

Thanks, Stan.

I've been largely ignoring reports of high heat from the 7000, since that's really the only negative thing anyone has said about it as far as what it can do for the price tag.  The positive reports greatly outnumber the heat complaints anyway.  It has been mentioned that it is designed to dissipate heat on the case, and as long as the internal temps are happy, I'm cool with that.

Both of these radios seem like a great deal, really.  I don't think I can go wrong with either one.
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73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
W8JX
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Posts: 6682




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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 04:09:00 PM »

Make no mistake if it is hot outside it is hotter inside. Heat is no good and suggests a poor cooling design. A rig needs to keep its cool. I do agree that 7000 has some good reports otherwise but hot running is a big negative in my book. The 200 watt 480 HX runs cooler than 7000
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
AC4RD
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Posts: 1235




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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 04:23:19 PM »

Both of these radios seem like a great deal, really.  I don't think I can go wrong with either one.

Cory, youi're absolutely right.  I don't think there are any BAD choices out there, not really, in modern HF rigs.  The rig that feels better to you, or has the features you like, is the one you're going to enjoy.  Smiley

I've been using a 706 for over 10 years in my car; people said it overheated, too, but I only took it out of the car to do a little repair job on it.  Great rig!  And  I've been using a 480 in the car the last few weeks, and it's a darned nice rig for mobile use.  And one of the best things is, if you buy a modern HF rig and you don't like it, you can usually sell it used without losing all that much money. Smiley

Pick the rig you like best, the one that feels best to you--you can't go far wrong no matter WHAT!  Wink   73!   --ken
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 04:55:42 PM »

Make no mistake if it is hot outside it is hotter inside. Heat is no good and suggests a poor cooling design.

 The 200 watt 480 HX runs cooler than 7000

So what?
Heat on a radio means nothing on  todays radios. A modern radio is engineered carefully to dissipate heat without damaging components. If it was not, the Radios would fail and the manufacturer would not stay in business very long.

An excellent example of how heat is not detrimental to radios is my earlier reference to my Vintage Equipment. These old Radios generated serious heat yet they still keep ticking. These Radios operated AM mode which is a brutal mode. AMers talk for a LONG time key down. I have run across some AMers who lock the microphone button down, talk for 10 minutes, ID and keep on talking. If heat was going to kill a radio these old Vintage radios would be long buried. My Valiant was made in the 1950's and is still heating  my shack in the Winter time without any failures from some serious heat. This xmitter runs about 140 watts AM output which translates to over 500 watts PEP.

IMO heat killing Icom Radios is just another internet Myth.

Now let me guess W8JX, you push the Kenwood 480. I am  willing to bet you own one. Have you ever had first hand experience with the Icom 706/7000 series of radio or are you just repeating what you found on the net or what a good buddie told you?

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:09:53 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2078




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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 05:05:30 PM »

I've been using a 706 for over 10 years in my car;

Imagine that. A Icom 706 in a car for 10 years. How hot does your car get when it is sitting outside in the sun for a few hours? Is it pretty hot?  Cheesy

Or are you the type of ham that runs his car's AC when he is not in the car. Just to protect his Icom radio from overheating...  Did 10 years of heat in a car affect your Icom? The heat must not have hurt the radio too much, after all you had it in the Car for 10 YEARS..

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 2078




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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 06:17:55 PM »

Both of these radios seem like a great deal, really.  I don't think I can go wrong with either one.
Cory, youi're absolutely right.  I don't think there are any BAD choices out there, not really, in modern HF rigs. 

I would have to agree with one small objection. Both the 480 and 7000 are good choices. However as a Newbie ham I would go with the 7000 simply because the 7000 has the 2 meter band. 2 Mtrs is a great place to meet local hams. Hams that can give you much needed help in your new ham radio career. If you buy the 480 you are going to end buying a 2mtr radio also. Eventually.

Stan K9IUQ
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W8JX
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Posts: 6682




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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 04:56:26 AM »

Make no mistake if it is hot outside it is hotter inside. Heat is no good and suggests a poor cooling design.

 The 200 watt 480 HX runs cooler than 7000

So what?
Heat on a radio means nothing on  todays radios. A modern radio is engineered carefully to dissipate heat without damaging components. If it was not, the Radios would fail and the manufacturer would not stay in business very long.

An excellent example of how heat is not detrimental to radios is my earlier reference to my Vintage Equipment. These old Radios generated serious heat yet they still keep ticking. These Radios operated AM mode which is a brutal mode. AMers talk for a LONG time key down. I have run across some AMers who lock the microphone button down, talk for 10 minutes, ID and keep on talking. If heat was going to kill a radio these old Vintage radios would be long buried. My Valiant was made in the 1950's and is still heating  my shack in the Winter time without any failures from some serious heat. This xmitter runs about 140 watts AM output which translates to over 500 watts PEP.

IMO heat killing Icom Radios is just another internet Myth.

Now let me guess W8JX, you push the Kenwood 480. I am  willing to bet you own one. Have you ever had first hand experience with the Icom 706/7000 series of radio or are you just repeating what you found on the net or what a good buddie told you?

Stan K9IUQ

I used to repair radios 20 years ago and do not preach that heat is not a factor with solid state radios because it is. Solid state devices have much lower max temps than old tube rigs you try to compare them to. The hotter a rig runs the more it potentially shortens the life of some of the parts in it. Why do you think server farms are always cooled? It is for maximum reliability and life. Maybe they have it all wrong Stan. I have made it a point to tryout a lot of rigs over the years especially in the entry level to mid range market. Maybe you like a rig that can double as a coffee warmer I do not. Also a hot running rig can mean shorter battery life in portable operation. As far as owning 480 , I have. Kenwood could have made it a all band rig in a book and compromised cooling and other features to meet a price goal but they choose to focus on HF performance and features. The 7000 is a nice looking rig but chrome or nice wheels on a car do not make it run better or last longer it is merely eye candy to help you overlook its short comings.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
M6GOM
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Posts: 1014




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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 05:15:03 AM »


I used to repair radios 20 years ago and do not preach that heat is not a factor with solid state radios because it is. Solid state devices have much lower max temps than old tube rigs you try to compare them to.

70C or around 160F. For an Icom 7000 to be hot enough to the point where damage would occur, you wouldn't be able to put your hand on it whilst saying "this rig runs hot" without getting third degree burns. The fact that no amateur complaining about the rig running hot has said they've got even first degree burns from touching it suggests that whilst it gets warm to the touch its not hot enough to cause damage.

Quote
The hotter a rig runs the more it potentially shortens the life of some of the parts in it.
Why do you think server farms are always cooled? It is for maximum reliability and life.
However those servers which run 24/7 for years without damage still run HOTTER than an Icom 7000. You won't be putting your hand on the CPU heatsinks or the hard drive cases without yelling "ouch".

One wonders why the Icom 7000 seems to be the only transceiver that a lot of amateurs use whilst resting their hands on it. I don't know of any other radio where amateurs seem to routinely use it whilst touching it to see how hot it gets.

At the end of the day, the fact you can put your hand on it and keep it there regardless of the fact it feels extremely warm without receiveing burns proves that it is operating well within the thermal tolerances of the components within.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 05:18:53 AM by M6GOM » Logged
K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 05:17:47 AM »

Why do you think server farms are always cooled? It is for maximum reliability and life.

 it is merely eye candy to help you overlook its short comings.

The Icom radios are cooled adequately for the components that they use. They do this for  for maximum reliability and life.

Your eye candy remark does not deserve comment and is laughable. You did not answer my question about actually owning an Icom706/7000.

I am NOT anti-Kenwood radios. I owned a Ts-2000 for 2 years.It failed twice and I got rid of it. I presently own a TS-590s which is a much better radio than the 480.

The 7000 has many "eye candy" and useful features that would enhance any hams experience. I was not going to mention them but since you brought up Icom eye Candy, I will.

1. The 7000 has both 2 mtrs and 70cm in addition to all HF bands. This is a HUGE advantage when using the radio in  a vehicle. Only one radio is needed for all bands. It saves space and $$,
2. The Icom 7000 requires NO additional filter purchase. The builtin DSP filtering is excellent and more than adequate for most situations.
3. The Icom has a VERY  pleasant and useful colorful display.
4. The 7000 is a quiet radio as are all Icoms. The Icom DSP and NB are superior to my TS-590's.
4. The Icom 7000 has superior RTTY performance as do all Icoms. The dual peak Filters on FSK are unbelievable.
5. The Icom 7000 has a builtin RTTY decoder.
6. The icom 7000 Display unit can be mounted on the main body, making a one piece radio. This is very convenient for home and portable use.
7. The Icom Display unit can be remoted easily for Vehicle use. You get the best of both worlds with the 7000 - home and portable or vehicle use.

There are other eye candy perks I could list but you get the idea. The 7000 is a much better bang (value)  for the $$$ than a 480.

Stan K9IUQ





« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 05:28:03 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 05:20:45 AM »

One wonders why the Icom 7000 seems to be the only transceiver that a lot of amateurs use whilst resting their hands on it. I don't know of any other radio where amateurs seem to routinely use it whilst touching it to see how hot it gets.

One has to love English humor. Thanks, you made my day.

ROFL
Stan K9IUQ
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M6GOM
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Posts: 1014




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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 05:24:34 AM »

I have both the Icom 7000 and a TS480/TM-D710 and a FT950 and FT1000 and TS590.


1. The 7000 has both 2 mtrs and 70cm in addition to all HF bands. This is a HUGE advantage when using the radio in  a vehicle. Only one radio is needed for all bands. It saves space and $$,
However with the limitation that you cannot monitor local repeaters whilst working HF which was something I didn't think was a problem when I replaced my TS480/TM-D710 combo with an Icom 7000 but I soon found I missed being able to. If you never have before, you'll not miss it though.
Quote
2. The Icom 7000 requires NO additional filter purchase. The builtin DSP filtering is excellent and more than adequate for most situations.
The TS480 without filters has better selectivity. DSP alone can only do so much and the Icom 7000 seriously lacks a roofing filter. Even a 15kHz one would improve it immensely by giving the DSP a fighting chance.
Quote
3. The Icom has a VERY  pleasant and useful colorful display.
Indeed it does however it can become hard to see in bright light unlike the TS480.
Quote
4. The 7000 is a quiet radio as are all Icoms. The Icom DSP and NB are superior to my TS-590's.
The receiver is noisier than the TS480 but then again the TS480's is the quietest I've ever heard. The Icom 7000 DSP and NB are IMO better with the NB being excellent.
Quote
4. The Icom 7000 has superior RTTY performance as do all Icoms. The dual peak Filters on FSK are unbelievable.
5. The Icom 7000 has a builtin RTTY decoder.
However as you still have to use a computer to send, point 5 is moot.

Quote
7. The Icom Display unit can be remoted easily for Vechicle. You get the best of both worlds with the 7000 - home or vehicle use.
However you pay through the nose for the separation kit and cable - as much as 1/8th the cost of the transceiver - whereas Kenwood include the separation cables and because they're not proprietary you can make your own.

Quote
There are other eye candy perks I could list but you get the idea. The 7000 is a much better bang (value)  for the $$$ than a 480.

If you want everything in one transceiver then yes it is. However it comes with shortfalls over separate HF and V/U rigs as do all shack in a box radios.






[/quote]
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 05:27:02 AM by M6GOM » Logged
K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 05:34:01 AM »

However you pay through the nose for the separation kit and cable - as much as 1/8th the cost of the transceiver - whereas Kenwood include the separation cables and because they're not proprietary you can make your own.

I got the Icom 7000 remote cable free with the radio. I have never used it , it is still in  the box.

The only real disadvantage that I have noted on the 7000 after 5 years of ownership is the AGC circuit. Static or a blip of noise will somtimes silence the radio for a brief moment.  It seems to not recover as fast as other radios I have used. Also the supplied microphone is not great. I got the AB5N mic mod on mine and it improved the xmit audio quite a bit.

FWIW I am planning on selling my 7000 very soon. I am going to get a Icom 7100.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 05:51:01 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
W1JKA
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Posts: 1821




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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 05:50:20 AM »

    Thanks for bringing up the over heating issue.As I type this I am using an old IBM think Pad(Widows XP)I bought 3 years ago refurbushed and has been on for the most part 8-10 hrs. daily since.In the winter it is truly a lap top and coffee cup warmer and the constantly running small circulation fan does an excellent job keeping my breath vapor at bay and in the summer I put my home made bread dough beside it to help it rise faster.Now armed with this new information I will start saving my pennies as I expect this computer to shit the bed any second now.
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2078




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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 05:56:32 AM »

7. The Icom Display unit can be remoted easily for Vechicle. You get the best of both worlds with the 7000 - home or vehicle use.
However you pay through the nose for the separation kit and cable - as much as 1/8th the cost of the transceiver - whereas Kenwood include the separation cables and because they're not proprietary you can make your own.
[/quote]

You forgot to mention that the Kenwood display can not be mounted on the body of the radio. This makes it inconvenient for home use and VERY inconvenient for portable use. You will spend extra $$$ to get a solution to this shortcoming.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:01:46 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
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