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Author Topic: Kenwood TS-480 vs Icom IC-7000  (Read 30668 times)
M6GOM
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Posts: 945




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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 09:46:56 AM »

I'm in the UK Stan so we get the carry bracket which you mount the body and head to included.
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W8JX
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Posts: 6087




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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 10:20:22 AM »

Why do you think server farms are always cooled? It is for maximum reliability and life.

 it is merely eye candy to help you overlook its short comings.

The Icom radios are cooled adequately for the components that they use. They do this for  for maximum reliability and life.

Your eye candy remark does not deserve comment and is laughable. You did not answer my question about actually owning an Icom706/7000.

I am NOT anti-Kenwood radios. I owned a Ts-2000 for 2 years.It failed twice and I got rid of it. I presently own a TS-590s which is a much better radio than the 480.

The 7000 has many "eye candy" and useful features that would enhance any hams experience. I was not going to mention them but since you brought up Icom eye Candy, I will.

1. The 7000 has both 2 mtrs and 70cm in addition to all HF bands. This is a HUGE advantage when using the radio in  a vehicle. Only one radio is needed for all bands. It saves space and $$,
2. The Icom 7000 requires NO additional filter purchase. The builtin DSP filtering is excellent and more than adequate for most situations.
3. The Icom has a VERY  pleasant and useful colorful display.
4. The 7000 is a quiet radio as are all Icoms. The Icom DSP and NB are superior to my TS-590's.
4. The Icom 7000 has superior RTTY performance as do all Icoms. The dual peak Filters on FSK are unbelievable.
5. The Icom 7000 has a builtin RTTY decoder.
6. The icom 7000 Display unit can be mounted on the main body, making a one piece radio. This is very convenient for home and portable use.
7. The Icom Display unit can be remoted easily for Vehicle use. You get the best of both worlds with the 7000 - home and portable or vehicle use.

There are other eye candy perks I could list but you get the idea. The 7000 is a much better bang (value)  for the $$$ than a 480.

Stan K9IUO


They could of made 7000 run cooler but that would of cost more and added size. Could have added a higher quality DSP but that would cost too. If you want a HF thru UHF rig in a box than a 7000 is a viable choose in which compromises have been made in design to fit that bill at its price level. If you want solid HF performance than 480 is a better choice and it offers 100watt version with a tuner and a 200 watt version without. Built in RTTY is eye candy and nothing more as doing digi with that rig would result on one very hot rig. As far as what is too hot? I do not know about you but I do not use gloves handling my rigs and they should never get to hot to handle with bare hands. If they do it is a bad design. If case is too hot to touch you know it is really cooking inside. Then there is the mobile environment which can be very warm at times and if you go into mountains where air is thinner that makes cooling even a bigger problem. So, you start of with a cool running rig for this use and not a hot running one. I am sure 7000 has thermal protection but that means it can reduce power a good bit when it needs to to survive and not when you want too. Also let's not forget that you basically need to use a menu to do a lot of things on a 7000 while 480 is far more user friendly. (funny how you skipped that point Stan)

Then point of all this is not to start a p!#!ing  contest but rather point of the strengths and weakness of rigs and there designs. If you want a serious HF rig for mobile use the 200 watt 480 HX is only choice out there. Nothing else out there can touch it. It will give you 3db over 100 watt rig and only 3 dB less than a 100 watt rig with a 400 watt mobile amp. Plus as a 200 watt rig it should handle 100+ watts at very high digi duty cycles nicely while 7000 would toast at 50 watts.

It is kinda like a car/suv towing a trailer, you want it to be cool running before you push it not hot and straining to keep its cool before you push it.
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1962




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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 11:13:04 AM »

Also let's not forget that you basically need to use a menu to do a lot of things on a 7000 while 480 is far more user friendly. (funny how you skipped that point Stan)

I have NEVER owned a Kenwood 480, I do not make comments about radios I do not have experience with. My opinions are formed entirely on  my first hand performance of the radios I own or have owned. Have you owned a 7000, you keep evading that question.

I did skip that point because I have no experience with a Kenwood 480. I do have experience with a TS-590s (I own one) and can tell you the TS-590s is menu rich.  Wink

Also I have had much much experience with the Icom radios. I have owned the 751a, 706,706MKIIG,746,ProII, Pro III,  and still own a 7000.It never occurred to me that Icoms menus are difficult to use as I am  quite comfortable with the Icom way of doing things.

Stan K9IUQ
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1962




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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 11:27:56 AM »

I am sure 7000 has thermal protection but that means it can reduce power a good bit when it needs to to survive and not when you want too.

while 7000 would toast at 50 watts.

Where oh where is your information coming from? Have you owned a 7000? Are you making this stuff up just because you own a 480?Huh

In 5 years of operation I have never seen my 7000 reduce power because it was too hot. I told you earlier I have used the 7000 on RTTY many times. I have also made many long-winded contacts on 10 mtr FM and 2 mtrs FM another brutal mode for radios. I have taken the 7000 to my Vacation home for the last 5 years. Since we always vacation the whole month of June I use the 7000 for Field day. I usually make around 500 QSOes on Field Day. Not once did my 7000 reduce power. Not once did I put my hand on the 7000 to see how hot it was running. In 5 years of using the 7000 Not once did I worry how hot it was running.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 11:31:13 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
W8JX
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Posts: 6087




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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 12:42:58 PM »


I have NEVER owned a Kenwood 480, I do not make comments about radios I do not have experience with. My opinions are formed entirely on  my first hand performance of the radios I own or have owned. Have you owned a 7000, you keep evading that question.

I did skip that point because I have no experience with a Kenwood 480. I do have experience with a TS-590s (I own one) and can tell you the TS-590s is menu rich.  Wink

Also I have had much much experience with the Icom radios. I have owned the 751a, 706,706MKIIG,746,ProII, Pro III,  and still own a 7000.It never occurred to me that Icoms menus are difficult to use as I am  quite comfortable with the Icom way of doing things.

Stan K9IUQ

I have used a 7000 several times and talked to many on air that owned them or used to own them or had owned them and common complaint was rig ran HOT. I live lose to Universal and R and L and I also have chance to compare rigs against one another. When 480 came out in 05 I did not even give it a thought and it was not until 2009 when I got to use and compare it to other rigs that it totally impressed me and that is not easy to do. I have used a 590 several times too. The 590 and 480 is a noticable upgrade over 570 but 590 does not really stand out above a 480 especially when optional filters are installed. As far as menus, sure 480 like 590 and 570 before it has them but difference is on 480 vs 7000 that 480 can select a LOT of features and functions WITHOUT needing to dive into menus while 7000 is VERY menu dependent and it has very few buttons. If you like rig that is not user friendly and runs hot get 7000, if you want a solid compact HF rig with a superb rx and tx and VERY user friendly then 480 is clear choice. You can have it in 2 flavor too. One with tuner and 100watts out and other no tuner with 200 watts. With version of 7000 has a tuner? 200 watts?

There is also a reason that control head is not directly mounted on 480, it allows for connections on front of chassis and flow through cooling from front to back for more efficient cooling and having front panel connections frees up rear of rig for better cooling/airflow too. You can make a rig as small as possible and pack a lot into a small box but it still has to dissipate same heat as a big rig and 7000 lacks mass and cooling here simple physics. Icom should have made is a 25 to 50 watt rig and it would have limited rig temps.
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N0YXB
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Posts: 322




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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 01:36:50 PM »

It's useless Stan, JX is always right, even when he's wrong.   Wink
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W8JX
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Posts: 6087




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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 03:22:39 PM »

It's useless Stan, JX is always right, even when he's wrong.   Wink


No not always but Stan likes to avoid the obvious logic. Any all band rig in a small box is a compromise. to suggest otherwise is foolish. Same with user interface, maybe you like to use menu to turn on processor, adjust power, adjust noise blankers, select filters and so on, I do not.
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 1962




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« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 03:26:52 PM »

It's useless Stan, JX is always right, even when he's wrong.   Wink

I know W8JX is NEVER wrong,but I do like to Crank his chain. Every one knows what he is doing. The more he posts the more his reputation grows...  Cheesy

ROFL
Stan K9IUQ
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KK6GNP
Member

Posts: 158




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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 03:44:55 PM »

It's useless Stan, JX is always right, even when he's wrong.   Wink


No not always but Stan likes to avoid the obvious logic. Any all band rig in a small box is a compromise. to suggest otherwise is foolish. Same with user interface, maybe you like to use menu to turn on processor, adjust power, adjust noise blankers, select filters and so on, I do not.

A compromise is basically what I am looking for.  I have a limited budget since I'm setting up my first shack and easing my wife into this whole "radio thing" without making her think I've gone insane.. hahah.  I'm getting into local club repeaters/nets and emcomm that runs on 2m, 70cm, and 1.25m.  Of course I have every intention of also getting involved in HF to the fullest extent I can within my limits, including field QRP, SOTA, etc.  I know ultimately I'll end up with probably at least 4 different "main" radios, not counting what I end up with in my Jeep Wrangler.

Right now it's all about that first base rig that will give me the best bang for the buck and get me on the air.  I still have to get into a couple antennas, power supply, antenna tuner, cables, etc. as well, and I can already hear the sucking sound coming from my wallet!   Grin
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 03:55:03 PM by JEEPESCAPE » Logged

73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
W8JX
Member

Posts: 6087




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« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2013, 04:05:14 PM »

It's useless Stan, JX is always right, even when he's wrong.   Wink

I know W8JX is NEVER wrong,but I do like to Crank his chain. Every one knows what he is doing. The more he posts the more his reputation grows...  Cheesy

ROFL
Stan K9IUQ

It is not that I am never wrong but rather usually right on some things. I do my homework.  You will not see me comment much on rigs I never really used or researched a lot. A pet peeve of mine is electronic devices than run hot due to improper cooling or limited thermal mass. 
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1962




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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2013, 04:13:54 AM »

Where oh where is your information coming from? Have you owned a 7000? Are you making this stuff up just because you own a 480?Huh

I have used a 7000 several times and talked to many on air that owned them or used to own them or had owned them and common complaint was rig ran HOT

WOW you used a 7000 several times and talked to many, that is some real research.

I have done no research. I have actually owned a 7000 for 5years and believe me it has not been a shelf queen. I have had probably 3,000 QSOes on my 7000. CW, SSB ,RTTY and FM. Perhaps I know just a little more about 7000's than your "research" based on the biased ownership of your beloved 480..

A small Radio running HOTTER than a bigger radio is normal and Icom's 7000 has been properly designed to handle this heat.

I do my homework.  

One only has to look up your call on QRZ.com and see the picture of your Vertical to understand how you do your homework.....

LMAO  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Stan K9IUQ


« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 04:23:28 AM by K9IUQ » Logged
M6GOM
Member

Posts: 945




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« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2013, 10:24:09 AM »

but 590 does not really stand out above a 480 especially when optional filters are installed.

I don't even know where to begin with that statement. I've had a TS480 as long as I've been licensed and a TS590 that I bought was from the first batch delivered to the UK. The TS590 beats it hands down in selectivity on 160-20m. On 17-6m it is more neck and neck however the ergonomics of the TS590, especially for well used things like band and mode changing, leave it way ahead.
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1962




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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2013, 11:20:21 AM »

but 590 does not really stand out above a 480 especially when optional filters are installed.

I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

Why many Hams always think the greatest radio in the world is sitting on their desk is beyond me. These are the same hams who constantly promote their beloved radio in forums above all other radios, the facts be damned...

Stan K9IUQ
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KK6GNP
Member

Posts: 158




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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2013, 01:05:25 PM »

but 590 does not really stand out above a 480 especially when optional filters are installed.

I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

Why many Hams always think the greatest radio in the world is sitting on their desk is beyond me. These are the same hams who constantly promote their beloved radio in forums above all other radios, the facts be damned...

Stan K9IUQ

I think that's human nature a lot of times.  However, I'm getting the idea that really none (or very few) of the well-known radios are bad.  From my perspective, as someone brand new to this hobby, it is very daunting trying to weed through all of the information.  The first shocker for me was to find out that some of these radios have been on the market and selling steadily for a decade or longer.  Coming from the computer (information technology) industry, where two year old tech is considered "ancient", that was hard for me to grasp.  Now that I know more, I understand it better.  That doesn't help me choose hardware to get started with though.  I think the the barrier to entry into this hobby could use a modern day dose of smoothing. 

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73 ~ Cory (JeepEscape)
KK6GNP
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 1962




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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2013, 01:51:52 PM »

  However, I'm getting the idea that really none (or very few) of the well-known radios are bad. 

Maybe, BUT some are better than others.....

Stan K9IUQ
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