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Author Topic: Best way to work QRPers who don't hear well?  (Read 12714 times)
W1VT
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Posts: 860




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« on: September 09, 2013, 04:14:20 PM »

Don't think I've ever heard this discussion--what is the best way to work QRPer's who don't hear well?

For instance, I just got a card from a QRPer--who said I was at his noise level--even though I was running a lot more power than he was.  I would have preferred to work him 2 way QRP but how do you make up 12 dB?  A 30M four square only gets me halfway there...

Zack W1VT
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AK7V
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Posts: 251




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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 04:17:49 PM »

Turn up the power even more?  Smiley

I was one of those QRPers occasionally when I lived in an apartment and had poor antennas and lots of local RFI.  Often times a station running power gave me a better signal report than I was able to give him. 

Some QRP ops are QRP because if they ran more power, their severely compromised setups would cause problems with neighbors' electronics.  People in those situations aren't likely to have very good RX capabilities, either.
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KB1GMX
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Posts: 813




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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 05:17:18 AM »

The problem is twofold.

Transmit,
Low power and possibly a compromise antenna.

Receive,
Not all QRP radio have great or even good receivers and they have the compromise antenna.

QRM,
Verticals are more prone to this and some locations are just plain noisy.  Often a good RX noise blanker
may help if one is available.


That alone should be enough argument to use the best antenna possible or the one with least
compromise to loss. 

But sometimes a small antenna is what you have and the humble abode is far from the best site.

That was radio is sometimes.  Doing what you can with what you have.

Allison
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3961




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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 07:41:27 AM »

Zack:  I think the answer to your question is you do what you can.  The poor reception is HIS problem, not yours. 

It's unfortunate that some have to live with circumstances that prevents good reception, high power, good antennas, etc., but that's life in the ham hobby.

Operators that have circumstances like that should be working to correct their problems instead of complaining about them.  Striving to improve one's station and operating conditions used to be an ongoing project.  One that seldom stops.

There isn't anything WE can do except be patient when working them and perhaps offer suggestions and encouragement to improve their situation.

Al - K8AXW

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AA4PB
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Posts: 12984




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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 09:53:00 AM »

Depending on your local noise level I find there are lots of times that you can hear better than you are being heard. On HF its usually a matter of high noise levels at the other station rather than his poor receiver sensitivity. You'll find it with 100W stations as well as QRP. Often QRP stations hear quite well because they are operating portable from quiet locations.

Receiving is all about signal to noise ratio. If noise is strong then signals have to be even stronger in order to hear them effectively.
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NO2A
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Posts: 822




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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 07:45:59 PM »

I rarely use qrp,but will answer those that do. Just like working hard to copy dx in a heavy noise level,or just plain weak,slowing down can help. Try sending your call at about 5 words per minute. I had to do that the other day on noisy 80m while working a UT7 station. Even with running QRO he couldn`t copy to good. So I tried,N---O---2---A. It worked!
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WD8KNI
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Posts: 154




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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 06:37:23 PM »

There are lots of 5 thousand dollar stations that can't hear.. all mouth stations.. What they hear is not under your control... just work them as best you can, and then move on to the next..
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WX7G
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Posts: 6204




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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 12:21:02 PM »

The question should be restated as "what is the best way to work operators who don't hear well?" Whether the op is running QRP or not makes no difference.

The best way - the only way - is to increase your signal strength at his station. And that is done by increasing the gain of your transmit antenna such that your signal strength increases at his station, by increasing your transmit power, or both.
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AD6KA
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Posts: 2238




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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 02:54:04 PM »

The question should be restated as "what is the best way to work operators who don't hear  well?"
Whether the op is running QRP or not makes no difference.
Well said.

Some ops either can't, or don't know how,  to really listen.
One can have all the latest noise reduction doodads and filters, but very
often listening on HF between and among static bursts and QRM comes
down to plain old practice. Being an SWL (with a less than great receiver)
before I became a ham really taught me a lot.
Listening for an ID from a weak station on a noisy band
will teach you patience and listening skills.

The skills served me well when I finally got on the air with
my Novice Ticket, beat up HW-101, and speaker-wire dipole.  Grin
(But boy oh boy did I have fun!)
73m Ken  AD6KA
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KB1GMX
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Posts: 813




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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2013, 11:29:50 AM »

AD6KA hit it on the head.

The receiving station has the problem of equipment.  there are two components to that
one being the actual radio/antenna and the other the users wetware (ears/brain).

For some QRP ops the radio is minimal so filters and noise blankers are just not there.
Add to that the antenna may be low(in height) and less then optimal.  The only thing is
to listen better and thats training the brain.

QRO ops ahve the same issues.  Maybe better radios, crappy/compromised antennas
and the added burden of hoping the radio can do what the brain has to.  Not every op with
a $5k knows now to drive it to the capability, or the location cripples them, so the brain
has to carry the day.

Either way the transmitting op can only use power (amplifier or antenna) to increase the ERP
and maybe find an antenna that works better for that path.  In that case I've found antenna
direction, height or even going from dipole to vertical helps, sometimes.  The key here is you
can't change his conditions only yours.


Allison
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VE3WMB
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Posts: 289




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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 06:44:02 AM »

As others have stated, this is an issue on RX on the other end.  Short of increasing your power, or turning your directional antenna (if you have one) the only other thing that I can think of on CW is to slow down, as this will improve the S/N somewhat, especially if the receiving station is able to use a narrow filter.

The other thing that I have come to realize since starting to use an SDR with a Panadaptor is that many calling stations don't do a very good job of zerobeating the station that they are trying to work. If the other guy is trying to combat noise by using a narrower filter then it is important that you are very close to zerobeat on otherwise you may be on the edge or outside of his filter passband and he won't hear you.

Cheers

Michael VE3WMB / VA2NB

Don't think I've ever heard this discussion--what is the best way to work QRPer's who don't hear well?

For instance, I just got a card from a QRPer--who said I was at his noise level--even though I was running a lot more power than he was.  I would have preferred to work him 2 way QRP but how do you make up 12 dB?  A 30M four square only gets me halfway there...

Zack W1VT
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W1VT
Member

Posts: 860




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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 09:24:08 AM »


The other thing that I have come to realize since starting to use an SDR with a Panadaptor is that many calling stations don't do a very good job of zerobeating the station that they are trying to work. If the other guy is trying to combat noise by using a narrower filter then it is important that you are very close to zerobeat on otherwise you may be on the edge or outside of his filter passband and he won't hear you.

Cheers Michael VE3WMB / VA2NB

On occasion, I've found exactly the opposite--that some folks are  listening with rigs that don't work with a zerobeat signal, such as the Pixie comes to mind, and that you may need to experiment to find the best transmit frequency.

http://www.al7fs.us/AL7FS2.html
This article describes how to modify the Pixe to better hear stations that accurately zero beat CW signals.

Zack W1VT

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:26:56 AM by W1VT » Logged
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