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Author Topic: Copying poorly sent CW  (Read 4524 times)
ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2017, 08:31:38 PM »

That keying relay would have driven me nuts.

We used to have 16 - 18 ops per wing at a time on the air all with multiple 10kw Tx's and not a murmer from a keying relay.

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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
VK5EEE
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Posts: 649




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« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2017, 08:01:33 PM »

Because a murmer from a keying relay would have driven the GKA ops nuts, they wouldn't be able to do their job  Roll Eyes Grin and the QRY numbers would have been over 60! Bad enough as it was with the slow GKD... ops unable to take QRQ QTC!  Tongue
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
9V1VV
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« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2017, 08:26:51 PM »

Lou I worked GKA a bit. They were good. A bit snooty at times. I was always flag of convenience. Once they asked me in very slow CW (just to be insulting)  " do you understand English ?".... The bug operators at KPH were superb and a joy to work.
9VG was a weird station. The chief operator in the 1970s and 80s could not send Morse to save his life. He was very well known in asia. I ended up sending my QTC's via other stations to Singapore addresses, or waiting until he was off-watch to receive traffic.  Ridiculous.

Years later I learned that an entire generation of potential 9V ham operators had given up trying for their tickets because this same fellow was the Morse teacher at the local class. None of them could understand a thing he sent.

By the way the SSN thing is a bit tricky for me. The QRG of 14349 is a bit weird and my antenna will not tune that high for a decent output. It has a narrow bandwidth 14000-14060 for the conventional CW section.

Conditions have been totally awful of late as well....

Keep struggling on.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 08:36:25 PM by 9V1VV » Logged
ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2017, 08:32:37 PM »

Because a murmer from a keying relay would have driven the GKA ops nuts, they wouldn't be able to do their job  Roll Eyes Grin and the QRY numbers would have been over 60! Bad enough as it was with the slow GKD... ops unable to take QRQ QTC!  Tongue

We often used to get visits from R/O's and they were very surprised by what they saw.

I certainly was, when I visited there, before coming ashore.

As for the slow GKD ops, all we had to do at any position was to flick the switch and we were on any TX, we were all capable of taking 28 wpm, which was above the First Class PMG Speed for 5 mins non stop, no errors no corrections, I certainly do not recall any time that I received traffic at that speed.

As for the QRY numbers, that speaks volumes about just how good the Search Point ops were at the job.

Remind me again, just how long was your illustrious sea going career.

The only mumour that we were especially attuned to was the rattle of the tea trolley wheels, and the sound of the oertime book coming round.

Better look out in VK, will soon have the 4 ele up and a kw, so might be a bit louder.

Cheers  Gavin. Grin
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2017, 08:35:58 PM »

Lou I worked GKA a bit. They were good. A bit snooty at times. I was always flag of convenience. Once they asked me in very slow CW (just to be insulting)  " do you understand English ?".... The bug operators at KPH were superb and a joy to work.
9VG was a weird station. The chief operator in the 1970s and 80s could not send Morse to save his life. He was very well known in asia. I ended up sending my QTC's via other stations to Singapore addresses. Ridiculous.

Years later I learned that an entire generation of potential 9V ham operators had given up trying for their tickets because this same fellow was the Morse teacher at the local class. None of them could understand a thing he sent.

By the way the SSN thing is a bit tricky for me. The QRG of 14349 is a bit weird and my antenna will not tune that high for a decent output. It has a narrow bandwidth 14000-14060 for the conventional CW section.

Conditions have been totally awful of late as well....

Keep struggling on.



You cannot imagine how hard it was with some flag of convenience ships, there was one entire shipping line that was a nightmare on CW, then they would come up down in the RT section and berate us for not taking their so called CW.
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
VK5EEE
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« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2017, 09:23:34 PM »

Yes haha they would berate GKA because the Ops there generally could copy nothing but machine CW... or, as John said perhaps they could but would not -- were very very well known as arrogant and dictatorial. We hated working GKA because of the pedantic idiosyncracies... yes my career wasn't a career at that point as you well know, after years of my experience bringing smiles to R/O faces around the world, ZL1BBW and one other decided they felt threatened by the experience rather than enjoy it, and so the summary on my QRZ page was expanded to the finite details for your benefit, but still not appreciated. "Ahh, but you did not sign off on any papers", "ahh, but you weren't paid a salary", "ahh, but there is not rank of Apprentice on British ships (this was a GREEK ship and the R/O were better CW ops than you'll ever be ;-) etc etc... "GKA the world's best and finest", "SVA poor operators" etc.... I remind the non-Anglo-Saxon readers here that back in those days the racism was severe by the Brits against Greeks "Greasy Wogs" and Italians "Spags", and as for the Africans, well they did not have a right to life. ZL1BBW is GKA op and proud of it, but in my short time at sea I learned how arrogant are those GKA ops and the fellow R/Os would show daily how that is, calling GKB was not our favourite tasks as it was pedantic and slow to clear QTC. You yourself falsely boasted how high QRY numbers mean that your GKA was busy, we say it was because you were poor CW ops, arrogant, slow, pedantic, and racist against the many non-British customers. http://www.vkcw.net/vk5eee -- it is what it is and until you came along, no one had any issues with it :-) when will you stop feeling threatened by a young wonder Mozart experience? That some of us are genius kids doesn't mean you as a grown up need to feel so threatened and insecure by it. Nor that you should make silly attacks on a true story because you don't like me voicing MY own opinion on GKA from a different perspective. You sacred cow isn't sacred!
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
VK5EEE
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Posts: 649




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« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2017, 09:38:52 PM »

It's a sad fact that non Anglo-American i.e. French, Italian, Greek, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, African etc coastal and ship radio operators and officers don't join the discussions on the various forums that would make a complete understanding and history of this unique historic experience of radiotelegraphy, because of that sad arrogance and racism, condescending patronizing attitudes, so prevalent among the Anglo-Saxons. NOT ALL mind you, just that sad but vocal minority that spoil such forums and turn into a pissing contest and massaging of egos... hence those foreigners that do join most often end up leaving, and most of them don't bother as they know this is an exclusive club based on race. Today the tradition is STILL being kept alive and well in Japan, Korea, China, Russia, India, and a few other non-Westerners, and yet there is no coverage, no reaching out to them. A notable exception is www.TrafficList.net which is unhampered by these idiosyncratic handicaps. Consequently most do not realize that CW is still used commercially, and the experiences and true history is not shared.

Great to read about the 9VG OP John, that's funny but sad eh -- a lot of damage can be done by one person HIHI

The various unique characteristics of different coastal stations, are so interesting! In my short 5 weeks as R/O I remember some things that stood out: OFJ being the slowest wheel, wow, that was I guess 5WPM. DAN having an awful over-soft keying both on HF and also on MF. Russians being fast and able to send receive QTC at above 30WPM. The Greeks loving to call ......-.- for SVA :-) the use of MEEM (!) esp by Greeks, seems it wasn't used much by the West Europeans? (swear word)... each station having its own "feel" and I always wondered what it must be like at those stations. I never ever visited one. So it is nice to see the YouTube videos now of those historic stations such as IAR, PCH, GKA, SVA, etc, but I'd like to see some of the rare ones 3DP, 5AT, PJC, etc. and the current ones such as HLO, XSQ, etc! What wonderful days!

It was a mistake that I did not pursue a career at sea, I made the mistake of going to a British Navy recruitment office, that put me off the idea -- though I should have sought out the schools for merchant navy. I'd have still have 10 years at sea had I done so.... but life is full of regrets eh, and who knows what would have happened?! I'd perhaps not have been abducted and tortured multiple times, and other bad experiences, but perhaps also not met so many interesting leaders, and perhaps met an even worse fate! One does not know... but when we're young, we lack experience eh!
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
9V1VV
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« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2017, 10:11:18 PM »

Lou

Life is too short. Never regret. You have had a very interesting life and should consider writing about it.

Meanwhile it would be great if you and ZL1BBW could meet up for a few beers and get drunk. You would find you have more in common than that which separates you.

For one thing you are both excellent CW operators - I have heard you both and worked you, Lou, a few times. I know you are capable of QRQ as well.

73

John

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ZL1BBW
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« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2017, 10:37:52 PM »

Lou, You really have no concept of what it was like there.

About 0500 the band would start to open to the Gulf and then it was off, during the day we worked anywhere, then around 2100 it would start to die down a bit, the night shift started at 2300 and you would still be clearing traffic.  It was even worse/better once we were using the big rhombics, to start with we only had 40 acres, then it went to over 200 acres and they were up high, really high.

Dont forget, not only did we take the QTC's in the pre PC days we also had to retype them on the Telex, and from about 1700 we would be phoning traffic through to the office after hours.

So to say that we were arrogant and slow, is that why Niarchos a rather large Greek shipping co had a direct line to us from his office.

I know from my time at sea, that calling SVA was at best hit and miss, more often miss, as for some of the other stations well tht was a bit of a lottery.  PCH was probably the best of the bunch, DAN not too bad, and Stockholm was pretty good as well.

As for taking machine morse, we were just to busy to dither around with crappy sending.

Anyway we have been through this before.
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2017, 10:49:14 PM »

The only time we ever were accused of being racist was during a certain conflict in the South Atlantic, we were handling a huge amount of traffic, all in code, and then came the phone calls, it was not unusual to spend your whole shift in Rt working just one ship.

Anyway........   we co shared one of a large of number RT channels with another Eu country, and we stamped out claim on this channel all day every day, so they rang up and whined and moaned, the overseer at the time, put them straight, and it involved a large amount of colourful language  Grin

The next day the Foreign Office was on the phone with an official complaint!  we still kept using the channel.

It was interesting you would get 10 ph numbers at a time, and get one going then line the rest up, just flick the switch at 3 mins and the RO at the other end would move the headset to the next person, this worked fine, until AB Jones had to swap his position in the Queue with AB Smith.

Anyway it was a while ago now, and sadly a lot of the characters that made HF WT are no longer with us  Cry

Just one more... The OP suddenly stands up whilst taking a QTC, what ya doing? people asked, show a bit of ******* respect, Imn working the Royal Yacht.

Nite Nite
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
VK5EEE
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« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2017, 10:56:25 PM »

OK that is a fact, I really do not know what it was like at GKA! That's the side of things only you who were there can tell us. I can only relate my limited experience and the experience of colleagues at the time who had more experience. When I related my own experience truthfully you claimed I was a liar, yet you weren't there. I don't claim your own experience is lies. You were at GKA not me, so you can tell us how it was. We both called SVA -- yes there were complete difference in tactics. Perhaps you did not have good experience with the calling SVA certainly the competition was high, you just chose the best band for the path and called until you heard "DE". I can't say one or the other method was better, i.e. the GKB method being compulsory max 3x3 and QSS... a real pain if you had a very long callsign such as GXQQ on a straight key! Easy to tap out ......-.- instead. Maybe the Greeks at SVA too did not like the Brits :-) so perhaps you sometimes got ignored... I don't know.
Perhaps Niarchos had a direct line to you from his office because he had a lot of QTC for British ships? Or a lot of QTC from British passengers, and would find it faster and/or cheaper than to have his ships send via SVA since a big QRY and then back to square one if the copy was less than QRK5 made us hate using GKA?  I don't know either. Did you ask them? I'm all for sharing of experiences truthfully, just dead set against calling others who you don't know liars, when honesty is their life hallmark. Each should relate their experience, all experiences are valid. That makes up the human experience.

Thanks for relating your own experience, for sharing that part of history. "The only time we ever were accused of being racist " well that's the only time you knew of. Of the thousands of seamen who daily accused the Brits of racism it was muttered locally, not via official complaints. The joy with which GKA would work an Australian ship and the treatment vs Greek ships, and the dislike of the French and other Europeans, was legendary back then, I believe it still partly persists until today :-)
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2017, 12:17:39 AM »

Niarchos only had Foreign Flag vessels from memory, and they were not a passenger company, that would be but one of the many greek companies we handled traffic for.

Certainly in all the years I was at sea, I never noticed any station having a downer on any particular flag.

I think SVA only operated S&P I never recall hearing them that busy they were running a QRY.

Maybe you are taking a tiny snapshot of experience and claiming it to be a generic situation.  Yes we were often very busy, the big days weeks were a nightmare, Christmas, Easter, Mothers day, Valentines day and all of those.

As for QRK5, yes, but after your arse has been sat in the chair for 6 or 7 hours the last thing you really want is a guessing game.  Did not mind if they were QSA 2 or whatever, but lets have it in a decent format.

Anyway thats me done.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:21:35 AM by ZL1BBW » Logged

ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
VK5EEE
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« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2017, 03:49:31 AM »

Yes SVA often had high QRY numbers. Anyway those were the good days, in many ways.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
N9AOP
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« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2017, 06:48:42 PM »

Getting back to the original post, I don't mind bad CW as much as those OP's that masheverythingtogether without any space in between words.  Reminds me of a SSB OP who takes a deep breath and then talks fast until he runs out of air.
Art
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ZL1BBW
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Posts: 1182




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« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2017, 09:17:54 PM »

Getting back to the original post, I don't mind bad CW as much as those OP's that masheverythingtogether without any space in between words.  Reminds me of a SSB OP who takes a deep breath and then talks fast until he runs out of air.
Art

Then there was the time that the word counting rules were changed from per word to 10 letters = 1 word. ....

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog   = 9 words

to

Thequickbr ownfoxjump soverthela zydog  = 4 words

Whentaking thissortof messagewe alwaysleft itasitwass ent.

Now throw in a bit of greek text and it was all over the show.
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
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