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Author Topic: runningallthosewordstogether  (Read 7287 times)
N9AOP
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Posts: 145




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« on: December 18, 2013, 12:49:46 PM »

Is it just me or are more CW ops running all the words together without any spaces between?  If the posts on this venue never put a space between the words we would use less real estate but the result would be difficult to read.

The same thing happens to run together CW.  It is difficult to understand.  When I ask the OP at the other end who is doing this to add a little space between each word, some don't have a clue what I am talking about.
Art
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N6GND
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Posts: 379




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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 01:41:48 PM »

I notice this too. It's a common failure to learn morse code properly. I think that some ops learn to hear well-sent code but never bother to listen to their own sending which just plain sounds ugly and sloppy in addition to making it very hard to understand.
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KH2G
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Posts: 287




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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 01:57:19 PM »

That's why I suggest people who are learning should use a decoder to monitor themselves as it will quickly tell them if they are decent or not - hi
Dick KH2G
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NO2A
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Posts: 786




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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 02:20:12 PM »

Agreed. Also cq not sent properly,such as -.-.  .-- .- (cwa not cq). I`d honestly rather listen to chirpy,or badly rectified cw then improperly sent cw. It`s a bad habit to get into. Notice I`m not talking about mistakes,simply improper unacceptable type stuff.
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K7MEM
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 05:41:31 PM »

I have heard a few operators that run thing together, but it's not a epidemic yet. IMHO, this comes from new learners getting their transmit speed too far ahead of their receive speed.

There was an ham the other day that decided to learn Morse code. He bought a key and in a day or two he was banging out 15 or 18 WPM. But he was worried because he couldn't copy at 5 WPM. I admire him for giving it a try, especially since it isn't a requirement any more. How do you know your sending that fast, if you can't copy it? He needs to put the key away for a while and concentrate on receiving.
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Martin - K7MEM

http://www.k7mem.com
K8AXW
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 08:07:55 PM »

Before being sent to an Army code school I learned to send code with a straight key.  I was very good and knew all of the letters and numbers.  However, I couldn't copy squat!  There is a difference between being able to send code and hearing and understanding it.

No doubt someone learned in the operation of the human brain can explain this.  Those who run their words together are suffering from a variation of the same problem.  Everyone should listen to themselves on a tape recorder.  That's a real eye opener!

Al - K8AXW
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ZL1BBW
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 11:36:56 PM »

I remember when the rules about counting words in ships telegrams was changed to 10 letters = 1 word.

sothisbeca methenorma ltypeofmes sagewerece ived.

The big joke came when we had to deliver them by telephone after hours. Grin
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.
N0IU
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 03:12:38 AM »

He needs to put the key away for a while and concentrate on receiving.

This would be like learning how to throw a baseball by watching it on TV! I have been watching baseball nearly all my life but I still can't pitch a slider or curve ball at 90+ MPH no matter how much I watch! The only way to get better at something is to actually get in there and do it.
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K7MEM
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 04:24:58 AM »

He needs to put the key away for a while and concentrate on receiving.

This would be like learning how to throw a baseball by watching it on TV! I have been watching baseball nearly all my life but I still can't pitch a slider or curve ball at 90+ MPH no matter how much I watch! The only way to get better at something is to actually get in there and do it.

And you probably won't learn to catch a ball either by watching it on TV. For either one you need to get out of your chair.

Receiving is just as important as sending. What good is blasting away at 18 WPM, if you can't copy the guy on the other end.
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Martin - K7MEM

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W0BTU
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2013, 07:36:33 AM »

Is it just me or are more CW ops running all the words together without any spaces between? ... The same thing happens to run together CW.  It is difficult to understand. 

Change the settings in your fldigi CW software.  Grin
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PA1ZP
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2013, 08:34:53 AM »

Hi all

If you are using a PC to demodulate CW it might look that the operator isma kinga llth ose wordstog ether.
That is why I use a Vibroplex with awfull long and different types of dashes, to put the PC decoders in the dark.

I also am able to encript my orse code messages with Enigma cifercode machines, if computers gat any better still hihi.
Then I am certain they will not read my morse code no more.

73 Jos
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N6GND
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2013, 01:21:08 PM »

Hi all

If you are using a PC to demodulate CW it might look that the operator isma kinga llth ose wordstog ether.
That is why I use a Vibroplex with awfull long and different types of dashes, to put the PC decoders in the dark.

I also am able to encript my orse code messages with Enigma cifercode machines, if computers gat any better still hihi.
Then I am certain they will not read my morse code no more.

73 Jos

 Grin And, actually, our FCC regs prevent our using cyphers. Possibly one could construe poor runeverthingtogether sending as a cypher and thus illegal and subject to a fine and/or jail time.

Seriously, listening and understanding code and sending it are two quite distinct skills, each involving different parts of the brain and neural networks. It's like being able to understand English or another language and being unable to speak it, which occurs with some kinds of brain damage.

A big part of the underlying problem with poor code sending is the seeming current emphasis on speed. As a ham who first got licensed as a novice then as a general having to pass code exams, I think more experience at low speeds (below 10 up to perhaps 15 wpm) is required to become a competent operator. We need to keep in mind that most CW QSOs involve very limited exchanges of information; it's not like we are exchanging long essays with one another and need high speeds. We do not need high speeds.

I am convinced that 15 wpm is a reasonable long-term goal for competence as a nonprofessional CW op. I think that many ops find that 20 to 25 wpm is really significantly beyond their long-term mastery. Indeed, with the usual types of QSOs, especially DX, one only needs a marginal high-speed copy ability. Thus one can get by quite well with a solid ability to receive and send at 15 wpm, and a reasonable ability to handle the occasional brief, standardized QSO at higher speeds.



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PA1ZP
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Posts: 239




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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2013, 03:34:12 PM »

Hi Art and others

Ofcourse the Enigma thing is a bit of a joke.
i am perfectly able to run enigma coded messages and we have tried it in experimental QSO's.
But it is absolute unusable in day by day QSO's.
You will have to send the Enigma settings first to the other station before he can even read a word.

Then you have the constant work of decyfering every 5 letter group as it is recieved, so you will have to write down the cyfer code and put it in your enigma emulator for translation.
Then you have to translate your answer in the cyfermachine and write it down and send it to the other side in 5 lettergroups.
And remember Enigma doesn't have numbers so passing on numbers is a lot of work.
Absolutely unpractical to use this methode of CW in QSO but I realy could recomend every one to try it , just to see if you can do it.

10 yrs ago I threw my computer out of the shack so I cannot even do this fun experiments anymore.
I still am proud anyway that I got the Enigma award from Bletchley Park , it is hanging proud with me in my shack, and in my sons shack whom also has one of the few Enigma awards in the country from Bletchley Park England.

But I could always go to Russian German or French language if needed.

Normaly I only work rag-chew QSO's on the bands with friends and hams i know.
And ofcourse you will meet up with friends of friends and your rag-chew network of hams expands.
I run my CW speed at 27 WPM standard speed in Dutch and if I have to go to English or German language i have to go back to 25 WPM because there is translation to be done from Dutch to the foreign language as i send and recieve the code.
That will put some extra work in my brain and i have to slow down a bit for translation purposes.

I know what Arts problem is and that is that many hams have a poor CW hand, and stick all words in one long line.
Sometimes you even have the "letterstickers" that even do not keep any space between single letters that are being send by them.
I fight this problem very simple by setting my el-bug with a 3 dot space between each letter so i am forced to give decent code.

As i said before I normaly work at 27 WPM but i can read code at 35 WPM or even 40 WPM in QSO's without QRM, but it took me a long time to get this far.
It took many hours of practice and many QSO's before i got to this speed, and overhere there are not many hams that can do a ragchew QSO in these speeds.
But everybody can get up to 30 WPM if they are putting in the efford and have the will to to reach these speeds.
But as i said before always stay alert that your CW hand will get lazy and ugly if you do not  take care that your hand keeps clean and neat in giving the code.

It is also bad CW practice to answer a station in higher speed as he is calling, i will always go to the speed that the station is using at the other end.

Just keep on hammering down the code and it becomes more fun day by day and year after year.

For hams whom want to upgrade their speeds try the website LCWO.NET it is a great help in improving speed of your morse-code.

73 Jos
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W3UEC
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Posts: 10




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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2013, 04:19:34 AM »

There is a "Mixed Up Morse Cose" web site http://www.datagenetics.com/blog/march42012/index.html
that shows a lot of interesting problems and effects when the space between words and letters are muddled. For example, "elemental"   .    ._..    .    _ _    .    _.   _   ._   ._..   could be read as   .._.    .._    _._.    _._    .    _.. 
in the extreme case when the spaces beteen all elements (dits and dahs) were run together and then spaced differently. 

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K8AXW
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Posts: 3860




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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2013, 08:28:07 AM »

Perhaps the reason why operators run their characters and words together is because they are trying to send faster than their true ability?

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