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Author Topic: Scientific Evidence on Morse Learning  (Read 11301 times)
N4OI
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Posts: 210




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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2014, 01:13:43 PM »

Maybe sleep learning is the answer…. Grin
I haven't started dreaming in CW yet ... and, using the "sleep learning" technique would definitely earn a divorce petition from XYL....

Not to be wierd...  but I travel a bit for work and always take along my Sony SW-07 travel receiver. http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sony_icf_sw07.html  It has a lightweight, tennis racket-shaped active antenna that I just clip to the window-side of the curtain.   I find that quiet listening to 40 meter CW, around the 7.030 area, helps me get to sleep fast in a noisy, unfamiliar room.   The Sony has a very wide, fixed bandwidth that lets in a lot of CW without having to tune around... and the one-hour sleep timer is more than enough time to drift away.  (I am not claiming any sleep learning here!)

73
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IZ2UUF
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2014, 03:04:49 PM »

As I advance in my learning of Morse code, I have been deeply struck by how passionate people are about how a ham should learn the code.

Hello Martin.

In my learning of CW I became conviced that the most important aspect that should be scientifically addressed is not what exercise to do, but how to keep people involved.
Most of us are mid-age adults: our life is busy, we are stressed and we hate making a poor showing just because we fail to understand.
In my opinion, if a morse learning method wants to be succesful, it should fulfill these requirements:
  • - effective even if practiced on scattered spare time;
  • - rewarding;
  • - relaxing;
  • - not exposing too much to humiliation with other people, because this is stressing;
The exercises done by a 20 years old youngster under the Army that has nothing else to think than learning to copy CW might not be as effective on a mid-age family man, just because he is not 20, he is not under the Army and his life is much different.

I think that the method that will best meet the goals above will be the winning one.

Davide
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Davide IZ2UUF - FISTS #16285 - SKCC #9531 - JN45nk
KB4QAA
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2014, 10:38:40 PM »

Learning research has shown that that as we age our rate of learning decreases, retention decreases, attention span decreases and increased repetition of material is required to compensate.  This is especially true after the age of 45.

The strategies to use are:
-Take the material at a reasonable rate
-Stop studying when your mind wanders, i.e. you start missing whole words
-Review the material already studied at regular intervals
-Don't try to cram for tests!

I found this to be very true when I returned to college at age 45, just as the literature says.  Strategies that served well in my undergraduate years, left me struggling as an old foggie. 
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KB1WSY
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2014, 03:36:40 AM »

I found this to be very true when I returned to college at age 45, just as the literature says.  Strategies that served well in my undergraduate years, left me struggling as an old foggie.  

I think that ... oh, wait, I've forgotten what I was about to say (I'm 56, so that's OK!).

Your post is very useful, I must remember to use it whenever I forget to do something requested by XYL!

Edited to add:

A couple of years ago, she (and I) decided that I must be going a bit deaf. She was asking me stuff and I wasn't responding. So I went to the ear doctor and had a battery of tests. My hearing turned out to be 100 percent normal and quite good for someone my age. (Which is just as well, because I'm in the music business.)

So what did the doctor say? He said that, as we age, we become less inclined to focus on stuff that we hear. He said that this explains why I'm having trouble picking out conversations in a noisy restaurant, for instance. He insisted there was nothing wrong with my hearing, but only with my head!

XYL found this very amusing, and unfortunately I now have no excuse any more!

Interestingly, with Morse, I find that I copy better if I set the volume in the headphones quite low, almost at the "straining to hear" point.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 03:44:30 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
W1JKA
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2014, 04:10:58 AM »

My hearing doctor told me I had selective tone deafness, one of which is my XYL's audible speaking frequencies.
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LB3KB
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2014, 04:40:17 AM »

Learning research has shown that that as we age our rate of learning decreases, retention decreases, attention span decreases and increased repetition of material is required to compensate.  This is especially true after the age of 45.

Where did you find this research ?

I realize that what you're saying is a shared excuse belief among many people older than 45, but as far as I am concerned it's not a useful belief.  If anything it sets you up for failure.

So where is the scientific evidence you are talking about ?


73
K4NL Sid
justlearnmorsecode.com
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K7MEM
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2014, 04:54:41 AM »

I didn't have issues with my hearing or eyesight until I hit 40. That's when I started to buy the cheap glasses you can get at the grocery store. Before retirement, most of my time was spent in a lab. No windows, combination lock on the door, raised floor, and the constant movement of air from a 10 ton Liebert. After a while you don't even notice that it's on. Sometimes it would develop a whistle and you would have to hunt down the floor tile that was causing it.

So what did the doctor say? He said that, as we age, we become less inclined to focus on stuff that we hear. He said that this explains why I'm having trouble picking out conversations in a noisy restaurant, for instance. He insisted there was nothing wrong with my hearing, but only with my head!

That's actually quite common with dyslexia. If more than one person is talking at a time, I can't understand what is being said. Words from each talker are all mixed together. The XYL's family thinks that I'm just a nice quiet kind of guy, because I don't talk a lot around them. In reality, I have no idea what any of their conversations are about, because they all talk at the same time. At family gatherings there can be 7 or 8 of them talking at once.

My hearing doctor told me I had selective tone deafness, one of which is my XYL's audible speaking frequencies.

How lucky can a many get? Radios and selective hearing!
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Martin - K7MEM

http://www.k7mem.com
KB1WSY
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2014, 05:18:57 AM »

[snip] So where is the scientific evidence you are talking about ?
73
K4NL Sid
justlearnmorsecode.com

I'd be quite keen to see the scientific evidence too.

Speaking personally (and therefore only as anecdotal evidence), I went back to college at age 31 and already found it pretty tough back then. That was for language courses -- one year of intensive Arabic in Cairo. So, a bit of academic learning but mainly just a lot of "skill learning," a little bit similar to learning Morse Code.

What I find at age 56 is that I definitely seem to be "slower on the uptake" than I was as a teenager: I learned Morse back then too, but had forgotten everything by the time I got back to it recently. However, I am:

(a) Much more motivated than I was back then, which is hard to believe! As a 12-year-old I was totally obsessed with ham radio but now, in middle age, I think I may be even more attracted to the hobby than I was back then. Message to the middle-aged: don't try learning Morse unless you really want to do it.

(2) Much, much, more patient. Maybe too patient, judging from some of the comments on this forum. If it takes me many months to get reasonable, slow-speed proficiency then: so be it.

(3) Much more persistent. My attention span's no better than it was as a teenager, but my long-term staying power is much greater.

On the downside: life is complicated, much more complicated than for a teenager. Squeezing in the Morse learning is a challenge. But that applies to most adults, not just middle-aged ones, at least prior to retirement.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 05:22:52 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
K8AXW
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2014, 08:37:29 AM »

WSY: 
Quote
What I find at age 56 is that I definitely seem to be "slower on the uptake" than I was as a teenager: I learned Morse back then too, but had forgotten everything by the time I got back to it recently. However, I am:

(a) Much more motivated than I was back then, which is hard to believe! As a 12-year-old I was totally obsessed with ham radio but now, in middle age, I think I may be even more attracted to the hobby than I was back then. Message to the middle-aged: don't try learning Morse unless you really want to do it.

(2) Much, much, more patient. Maybe too patient, judging from some of the comments on this forum. If it takes me many months to get reasonable, slow-speed proficiency then: so be it.

(3) Much more persistent. My attention span's no better than it was as a teenager, but my long-term staying power is much greater.

On the downside: life is complicated, much more complicated than for a teenager. Squeezing in the Morse learning is a challenge. But that applies to most adults, not just middle-aged ones, at least prior to retirement.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY

Martin!  You took my breath away!  These observations describe me perfectly.  Age must take the piss and vinegar out of a guy and then he can get down to serious thinking and work!

Can you imagine what we could have been or what we could have accomplished if this process was reversed?  This is a "thought question"  that you can spend days analyzing!

Al - K8AXW
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KB1WSY
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2014, 09:28:55 AM »

Can you imagine what we could have been or what we could have accomplished if this process was reversed?

I stopped worrying about that at the age of 34, which is when I made the decision to quit from my "day job" as an international news reporter and set up my own small business with a tight focus and no intention to get rich or anything. I'm sure many young people, seeing the world as their oyster, expect to achieve great things. Ironically I ended up much happier after I stopped having "great ambitions" and also a bit better at "finishing" projects. I say "a bit," because I'm still pretty useless (hence, the half-finished plastic models all over the house). I also started paying a lot more attention to the family thing.... What I have never lost, however, is my wanderlust. Perhaps ham radio will be wanderlust by proxy.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:35:27 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
KB4QAA
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Posts: 2420




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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2014, 09:49:51 AM »

Learning research has shown that that as we age our rate of learning decreases, retention decreases, attention span decreases and increased repetition of material is required to compensate.  This is especially true after the age of 45.

Where did you find this research ?

I realize that what you're saying is a shared excuse belief among many people older than 45, but as far as I am concerned it's not a useful belief.  If anything it sets you up for failure.

So where is the scientific evidence you are talking about ?


73
K4NL Sid
justlearnmorsecode.com
I'm sorry Sid.  I did my research after I returned to school about 8 years ago. 

Without meaning to be trite, information on learning theory by genuine academics is widely available on the net.  Let your interest guide you!  bill
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M0LEP
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2014, 09:50:34 AM »

I'd be quite keen to see the scientific evidence too.

A quick google search turned up plenty of discussion on the subject. This one seems worth a read: http://education.jhu.edu/PD/newhorizons/lifelonglearning/higher-education/implications/
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LB3KB
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2014, 10:40:27 AM »

Learning research has shown that that as we age our rate of learning decreases, retention decreases, attention span decreases and increased repetition of material is required to compensate.  This is especially true after the age of 45.

Where did you find this research ?

I realize that what you're saying is a shared excuse belief among many people older than 45, but as far as I am concerned it's not a useful belief.  If anything it sets you up for failure.

So where is the scientific evidence you are talking about ?

I'm sorry Sid.  I did my research after I returned to school about 8 years ago. 

Without meaning to be trite, information on learning theory by genuine academics is widely available on the net.  Let your interest guide you!  bill

That's fine - I was just responding to the claim that "research has shown" as justification for what I consider a limiting belief.

Even if it was true, it would not be a useful belief.


73
K4NL Sid
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KB1WSY
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2014, 02:34:14 PM »

I'd be quite keen to see the scientific evidence too.

A quick google search turned up plenty of discussion on the subject. This one seems worth a read: http://education.jhu.edu/PD/newhorizons/lifelonglearning/higher-education/implications/

It is indeed worth a read. Good stuff. The answers to the questions about "do we get worse at learning stuff as we get older" are not straightforward, and the article does a good job at laying it all out.
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M0LEP
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2014, 04:25:14 PM »

Aye, it's clearly a question without a simple yes or no answer, and with quite a bit of variation between individuals, too. Science's answers are often complicated...
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