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Author Topic: Kenwood Hybrid Discussion List issues  (Read 2606 times)
KB1YSQ
Member

Posts: 6




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« on: February 17, 2014, 09:09:33 AM »

Hey folks!  Yesterday, I tried to join the Kenwood discussion group / mailing list at:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TS-520_820_530_830/

I sent two - that's right two - messages, using an anonymized name.  Promptly, I got yelled at for not using my call.  I replied that I didn't want to connect my anonymized name & call, and was promptly banned.

That's understandable - I get that they have their rules, and even if I disagree with them, they're to be respected.

SO - to eliminate the source of the issue, I created a new e-mail address, signed up, and sent this message to the list owner:

---

Subject: Whoops, call missing!

I managed to hit 'enter' before I'd finished!

I'm KB1YSQ.  And - I wanted to be clear - I'm "(Name Redacted)."  I didn't want to join from a new name as an attempt at 'ban evasion,' but as a way of addressing the actual root issue.  I was too hasty in my initial response, but I think more critically I was *unclear.*

In theory, I'm a big proponent of anonymity online - I think this is a generational thing, and I've seen *huge* differences in opinion of it in the ham community.

However - I'm 100% fine with abiding by the group rules, regarding signatures / identification - if it's from *this* (newly created) address.  My concern was with linking my semi-anonymous internet 'handle' / screenname "Overand" with my call, and as a result my QTH.  (Which is a post office box all of 3 miles from my home, in a very small town).

Anyway - I do understand if you won't accept my membership request here given the wrong-foot getting-off-upon, but I think you'll find I'm a quite good community member.  (I can provide references from other ham internet communities, or other non-ham internet communities I've helped organize).

A difference of opinion about internet anonymity & privacy shouldn't be enough to keep me separate from the group.  At 32, I'm from the "sort of grew up with the modern internet in its various phases" generation, and as such tend to have quite different attitudes about privacy than folks younger *or* older than me.

Incidentally, if references / history matter, I'm an ARRL member, and you can drop me a line over at KB1YSQ@arrl.net - or even ask at the ARRL about me, as my company (and I) worked with their IT department for a number of years, providing internet service & other things.

Anyway, sorry about forgetting my call in the recent application!

73
KB1YSQ / Geoff

-------

My membership has been denied - without explanation.  I suspect they don't want me there because I disagreed with the policy.  THAT BEING SAID - I don't know if the message above actually made it to the list owner / moderators, as I sent it through the list addresses.  (But, the message didn't bounce).  (I did this twice, as the first time I had hit 'send' before my message was complete.  The second time, I made sure to include my Call, but there's inadequate room to put much besides that in the 'join request) form.

It's pretty frustrating - I'm an actual ham, a Kenwood Hybrid owner, and not in fact an ass.  I've provided the options of references, and clearly am making a good effort to abide by the group policies - as long as it's not from my anonymized address!

I'm wondering if any of the moderators or list-owners can comment here as to why I'm being denied membership.

The group looks lively and friendly.

Per the list's info page, these are the folks I suppose have the ability to deny or authorize my attempt to join, via my (firstnamelastname@yahoo.com) address:

Joe WB7UQU Group Co-Owner
Walt N9WB Group Co-Owner
Ellen AF9J Group Moderator
Jon KD5SFA Group Moderator
Mike W5RKL Group Moderator

----------

My thought is that the message I sent (wherein I explained why I was re-joining and that I don't feel I'm attempting to 'ban evade' as I'm not trying to do this 'in secret.') may not have made it through, so I suspect maybe they think I'm trying to "sneak in?"

Anyway, I disagree with their decision to deny me membership, given my obvious intent to use my call for all messages going forward.  I'd at least like to hear some explanation - if it's merely a matter of "You publicly disagreed with our policy, so we're not going to ever let you in?"  That seems kinda vindictive, so I'm really hoping this is just a misunderstanding.

I'm optimistic about this - why *wouldn't* a group of hams want to encourage a relatively young (32) fresh owner of a nice Kenwood Hybrid (TS-830s) from being a part of a ham community?
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N0IU
Member

Posts: 1330


WWW

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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 09:17:56 AM »

I'm wondering if any of the moderators or list-owners can comment here as to why I'm being denied membership.

Because they make the rules. Its really just that simple.

You have a constitutional right to free speech, but access to a Yahoo group is not guaranteed under the Constitution. They told you how to gain access to the group and you have chosen not to follow their rules. The group owner is not under any obligation to let you in. So what's the problem?
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KB1YSQ
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 09:20:39 AM »

The problem is that I said "OK, I'll abide by the rules," set up an e-mail address with my legal and FCC-connected name *specifically* for that purpose, gave them my callsign, and they're still rejecting me.
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KI6LZ
Member

Posts: 587




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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 09:30:35 AM »

Put them on your s$$$ list and go find some better hams.
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KB1YSQ
Member

Posts: 6




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 09:47:51 AM »

Aside from this thing - and my admittedly... "brusque" response to their comment on the rules, it seems like a genuinely friendly group of people.  And - it looks like a *great* resource for owners of Kenwood Hybrids - from what I can tell, it may in fact be the best online.  If i'm not able to join, besides leaving a "bad taste in my mouth" about the way some hams treat each other, I'll also be denied access to probably one of the most helpful resources if I want to keep my TS-830s running well.

As I mentioned - it seems my generation generally has a very different attitude towards internet anonymity & privacy than folks both younger.  A lot of ham communities online extend the "IDENTIFY YOURSELF" mentality from the airwaves to the internet.  The difference here is that I'm not able to cause intenntional or unintentional QRM, transmit outside of my licensed bands regions, have spurious emmissions, etc online - so I think the reasoning for needing PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION on the air falls short online.

I've been a victim of stalking, and I've made my home a safe haven for victims of abuse before - deciding to get licensed was a complex thing due to the inherent changes in my ability to remain anonymous or semi-anonymous.  I have a P.O. box at my new QTH, for these reasons.  As a result, I'm pretty defensive when people demand to know my callsign before they'll communicate with me.

OBVIOUSLY, what I should have done is read the rules more completely.  (My mistake, signing up and mailing on my smartphone before giving everything a proper read through).  If I'd done that, I wouldn't have signed up from the e-mail address I did so in the first place.

Also, I'm finding out that in some areas I should keep my opinion to myself - especially if it has to do with people enforcing rules about my membership.
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KA5IPF
Member

Posts: 1013


WWW

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 06:20:08 PM »

You left out one thing, it's THEIR rules they are enforcing and their group. Simple, if you can't abide by the rules don't join. By explaining your displeasure about the rules you indicated that you might try to bend or break some of the other rules. No membership.

Clif
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KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 2407




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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 07:59:02 PM »

You shouldn't have tried to explain anything, especially after essentially having an argument.

Wait a few weeks, and reapply with your callsign and NO comments.  Smiley

good luck. b.
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VE3FMC
Member

Posts: 987


WWW

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 07:15:08 AM »

Hey folks!  Yesterday, I tried to join the Kenwood discussion group / mailing list at:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TS-520_820_530_830/

I sent two - that's right two - messages, using an anonymized name.  Promptly, I got yelled at for not using my call.  I replied that I didn't want to connect my anonymized name & call, and was promptly banned.

That's understandable - I get that they have their rules, and even if I disagree with them, they're to be respected.

SO - to eliminate the source of the issue, I created a new e-mail address, signed up, and sent this message to the list owner:

---

Subject: Whoops, call missing!

I managed to hit 'enter' before I'd finished!

I'm KB1YSQ.  And - I wanted to be clear - I'm "(Name Redacted)."  I didn't want to join from a new name as an attempt at 'ban evasion,' but as a way of addressing the actual root issue.  I was too hasty in my initial response, but I think more critically I was *unclear.*

In theory, I'm a big proponent of anonymity online - I think this is a generational thing, and I've seen *huge* differences in opinion of it in the ham community.

However - I'm 100% fine with abiding by the group rules, regarding signatures / identification - if it's from *this* (newly created) address.  My concern was with linking my semi-anonymous internet 'handle' / screenname "Overand" with my call, and as a result my QTH.  (Which is a post office box all of 3 miles from my home, in a very small town).

Anyway - I do understand if you won't accept my membership request here given the wrong-foot getting-off-upon, but I think you'll find I'm a quite good community member.  (I can provide references from other ham internet communities, or other non-ham internet communities I've helped organize).

A difference of opinion about internet anonymity & privacy shouldn't be enough to keep me separate from the group.  At 32, I'm from the "sort of grew up with the modern internet in its various phases" generation, and as such tend to have quite different attitudes about privacy than folks younger *or* older than me.

Incidentally, if references / history matter, I'm an ARRL member, and you can drop me a line over at KB1YSQ@arrl.net - or even ask at the ARRL about me, as my company (and I) worked with their IT department for a number of years, providing internet service & other things.

Anyway, sorry about forgetting my call in the recent application!

73
KB1YSQ / Geoff

-------

My membership has been denied - without explanation.  I suspect they don't want me there because I disagreed with the policy.  THAT BEING SAID - I don't know if the message above actually made it to the list owner / moderators, as I sent it through the list addresses.  (But, the message didn't bounce).  (I did this twice, as the first time I had hit 'send' before my message was complete.  The second time, I made sure to include my Call, but there's inadequate room to put much besides that in the 'join request) form.

It's pretty frustrating - I'm an actual ham, a Kenwood Hybrid owner, and not in fact an ass.  I've provided the options of references, and clearly am making a good effort to abide by the group policies - as long as it's not from my anonymized address!

I'm wondering if any of the moderators or list-owners can comment here as to why I'm being denied membership.

The group looks lively and friendly.

Per the list's info page, these are the folks I suppose have the ability to deny or authorize my attempt to join, via my (firstnamelastname@yahoo.com) address:

Joe WB7UQU Group Co-Owner
Walt N9WB Group Co-Owner
Ellen AF9J Group Moderator
Jon KD5SFA Group Moderator
Mike W5RKL Group Moderator

----------

My thought is that the message I sent (wherein I explained why I was re-joining and that I don't feel I'm attempting to 'ban evade' as I'm not trying to do this 'in secret.') may not have made it through, so I suspect maybe they think I'm trying to "sneak in?"

Anyway, I disagree with their decision to deny me membership, given my obvious intent to use my call for all messages going forward.  I'd at least like to hear some explanation - if it's merely a matter of "You publicly disagreed with our policy, so we're not going to ever let you in?"  That seems kinda vindictive, so I'm really hoping this is just a misunderstanding.

I'm optimistic about this - why *wouldn't* a group of hams want to encourage a relatively young (32) fresh owner of a nice Kenwood Hybrid (TS-830s) from being a part of a ham community?

the YAHOO ham groups used to be pretty good at one point. Then they went to a new format which is a PITA to navigate through the messages. I used to visit that site daily as I am a member of a few groups. Now I find that I rarely visit.

Plus another thing I found with those forums. One guy would ask a question. Someone would answer, then 50 more answers would appear. Which is ok, but 45 of the 50 would just repeat what was stated in the first reply!

So don't feel bad, you really are not missing much IMO. As I said it used to be a good site to visit, not so much anymore.
Rick VE3FMC
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KA5IPF
Member

Posts: 1013


WWW

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 07:21:23 AM »



the YAHOO ham groups used to be pretty good at one point. Then they went to a new format which is a PITA to navigate through the messages. I used to visit that site daily as I am a member of a few groups. Now I find that I rarely visit.

Plus another thing I found with those forums. One guy would ask a question. Someone would answer, then 50 more answers would appear. Which is ok, but 45 of the 50 would just repeat what was stated in the first reply!

So don't feel bad, you really are not missing much IMO. As I said it used to be a good site to visit, not so much anymore.
Rick VE3FMC

At one point I was a moderator on several ham groups and a member of over a dozen. When they changed the format i got so disgusted trying to figure it out I quit all of the groups, never been back. Like you said, in the past it was a great source of information and help.

Clif
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K8AXW
Member

Posts: 3902




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 08:00:29 AM »

At the risk of repeating what someone else may have said on this thread, (I think I read them all...... the biggest reason for wanting a valid identity is to minimize "flaming" and harassment.

On eham.net, there have been 2 or 3 that sign in with a "handle" and their main point is to insult and harass those seeking information. 

Then there are those who are simply insensitive to how they talk to people.  Frankly, I'd like to see eHam.net adopt the same rules.

Clif, I've encountered some of the groups you became disgusted with.  I don't have time to spend threading my way through a convoluted procedure to get help with a problem.  There's too many other ways to find information here on the web.

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KA5IPF
Member

Posts: 1013


WWW

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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 07:23:45 PM »

It wasn't the groups I was disgusted with, it was the change in format. And the difficulty in using them.

Clif
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