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Author Topic: JT65 with a slash "/" in the callsign  (Read 7595 times)
NZ5N
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« on: February 19, 2014, 07:52:16 PM »

Has anyone figure out an effective way to use JT65 when using a call with a slash?  Today we tried to operate 20m JT65 with W1AW/4, but it always messed up, too many characters, reports were cut off, other issues.  Tried both JT65-HF and MultiPSK.

Thanks for any ideas and 73,
Bill NZ5N
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N3QE
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 04:01:52 AM »

I am not a JT65 user but I know a little bit about the theory of its encoding because I'm naturally interested in that sort of stuff. Suffixes like /4 should work ... but the slash is not "just a character" it's part of a highly encoded "suffix". If the software at both ends does not support the /4 suffix you may have to add the real call as part of the free text field and hope the guy on the other end notes it in his log. I have been working a lot of W1AW/portables since the beginning of the year and they all are consistently sending the portable suffix in whatever mode they are working.


http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/JT65.pdf

Quote
Appendix B: Supported Callsign Prefixes and Suffixes
Callsign prefixes and suffixes supported by JT65 are listed in the file pfx.f included in the
source code archive at pulsar.princeton.edu/~joe/K1JT/JT65code.tgz, as described in
Appendix A. Supported suffixes include /P and /0 through /9 [...]


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jt65-hf/OmFAkNV-pRY

Quote
JT65 is a structured protocol with a (severely) limited vocabulary.  Only free text messages transmit as a sequence of characters where you have freedom to step outside the protocol rules.  This is why JT65-HF has two message content boxes... one displays the structured messages that the program (attempts) to correctly generate based upon QSO context and is not user editable while the second allows entry of free form text within the length and character set limitations of JT65.

Suffix/Prefix support in JT65 is a mess.  This is not intended as an insult to the JT65 protocol's creator, but a simple statement of fact.  It was only with great reluctance that I added suffix/prefix support to JT65-HF as I'm constrained by the protocol definition in how the implementation works.  With that in mind here is the rules for suffix/prefix support in the JT65 protocol;

You may define a prefix value OR a suffix value but not both.

You may only use a suffix/prefix value contained in the list of those supported by JT65.

A station using a suffixed/prefixed call can only work stations NOT using a suffixed/prefixed call.

Suffix/prefix values not defined within the JT65 protocol can not be added to JT65-HF... additions to suffix/prefix tables can only occur from the WSJT development group and then all programs implementing JT65 can add/delete values to follow.  So... basically... don't expect to see any added suffix/prefix values as older versions of WSJT and other JT65 programs would not understand the new values or, at worst, break upon receipt of a new (in its context) undefined value.

My suggestion is to simply NOT use suffix/prefix values unless you have a legal requirement to do so.  You can always send a free text closing message with your 'proper' call if needed.  If you must use a suffix/prefix keep in mind all the above.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 04:04:58 AM by N3QE » Logged
KE5GAE
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 04:43:57 AM »

I've logged a few QSO's with /'s in them.  Yes, the software cuts them off, but as long as the contact response to the main call sign, the QSO can be completed.  Then, when logging the contact, I put the slash and any missing characters back into the call sign.

On the topic of the W1AW, I wonder how they are logging them?  I wonder, because I have logged a couple of these JT-65 QSO's to LOTW now, and have yet to see a QSL.  Also, they are not all consistent in how they use the slash, e.g. one of my contacts was "W9/W1AW" and the other was "W1AW/6."  I know LOTW can handle calls similar to this, as I have recent LOTW QSL's from HC5/DC1FN and TI4/N0URE.  The first of those two was just a few days ago, and I clearly remember the QSO being completed with "DC1FN" and then I just added the "HC5/" when I logged the contact.

Short of the software being modified to handle these slash call signs automatically, at least the manual approach works okay for me.

Basil
KE5GAE
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NZ5N
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 07:34:07 AM »

We are logging every QSO as W1AW/4.  The ARRL would not appreciate it if we just used W1AW and completely ignored the /4, especially since there is more than one W1AW/x operating at the same time.

Here is the best solution I can think of for W1AW/4 teams that want to try JT65, let me know if you have a better idea:
* Use MultiPSK (which has JT65 mode) instead of JT65-HF, which has less flexibility with free text.
* Under Configuration > Personal data, enter W1AW, not W1AW/4.
* In the Free 1 box, enter CQ W1AW/4 FL.
* In the Free 2 box, enter TU QRZ W1AW/4
* Use the Answer 2 and Answer 3 boxes for sending and replying to reports, it will show,for example, as W2XX W1AW R-16.
* This allows the W1AW/4 op to operate without any manual typing during a QSO.  The only problem is that calling stations who are not aware of the slash issue may attempt to send a report using the full call, which results in the report being cut off.  For example, if they try to send W1AW/4 W2XX R-16, it won't work, it will just send W1AW/4 W2XX, and we will not know if they receive the report.  The grid would also be cut, but we don't need that.
* If done properly, it should go like this:
CQ W1AW/4 FL
W1AW/4 W2XX
W2XX W1AW -16
W1AW W2XX R-16
TU QRZ W1AW/4
W1AW/4 W3YY
W3YY W1AW -12
W1AW W3YY R-12
TU QRZ W1AW/4
and this works too, if the caller is smart enough to drop the suffix at the outset:
CQ W1AW/4 FL
W1AW W2XX -11
W2XX W1AW R-11
W1AW W2XX RRR
TU QRZ W1AW/4

Before submitting the log, need to edit the ADIF file to put the /4 back in.

It is a shame that Diana or some other JT65-type mode with 30 second sequences has not caught on.  Really no need for 60 second sequences for a W1AW/4 or other special event situation.

73, Bill NZ5N 
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KE5GAE
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 08:43:12 AM »

Quote
and this works too, if the caller is smart enough to drop the suffix at the outset:
CQ W1AW/4 FL
W1AW W2XX -11
W2XX W1AW R-11
W1AW W2XX RRR
TU QRZ W1AW/4

Before submitting the log, need to edit the ADIF file to put the /4 back in.
That is the approach I was trying to describe.

My QSO's with W9/W1AW and W1AW/6 were both logged exactly that way in my upload to LOTW.  No QSL's, yet.

Basil
KE5GAE
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N3QE
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 09:00:02 AM »

On the topic of the W1AW, I wonder how they are logging them?  I wonder, because I have logged a couple of these JT-65 QSO's to LOTW now, and have yet to see a QSL.  Also, they are not all consistent in how they use the slash, e.g. one of my contacts was "W9/W1AW" and the other was "W1AW/6."  I know LOTW can handle calls similar to this, as I have recent LOTW QSL's from HC5/DC1FN and TI4/N0URE.  The first of those two was just a few days ago, and I clearly remember the QSO being completed with "DC1FN" and then I just added the "HC5/" when I logged the contact.

I have 120+ W1AW/portable QSO's so far this year, phone, CW, and RTTY, and after a week or two for logs to percolate back to HQ, they are all verified in LOTW as e.g. "W1AW/6"
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N3QE
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:06:40 AM »

My QSO's with W9/W1AW and W1AW/6 were both logged exactly that way in my upload to LOTW.  No QSL's, yet.

W1AW/6 and W1AW/9 both ended just two days ago.

More typically it takes a week or so from the end, for the logs to percolate to HQ and into LOTW. e.g. W1AW/4 Georgia ended Feb 11 and LOTW confirmation for me was Feb 18.

You want to re-upload with W1AW/9 as his call to get your matches (soon).

Tim.
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NZ5N
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 10:58:41 AM »

Have had an off-line conversation with an expert since my last post.  He says:
* use WSJT-X, not MultiPSK
* do not indicate the state (FL in my example), it will be misinterpreted as a grid locator
* logging programs will log the QSO as a QSO with W1AW (not W1AW/4) and therefore there will be no LOTW match unless the op manually edits his log to change the call to W1AW/4
* both the JT65-HF software and the Diana mode are now obsolete.

73, Bill NZ5N
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KE5GAE
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 01:17:06 PM »

You want to re-upload with W1AW/9 as his call to get your matches (soon).
I'll do that, just to be safe.  I logged it as W9/W1AW because that is the way he was calling.

I saw W1AW/4 and called, but never got a call back.  Georgia is getting into my skip zone.

Basil
KE5GAE
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