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Author Topic: Replacing XP  (Read 31426 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 6664




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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 02:16:18 PM »

"Microsoft has been pretty good about this with updates issued the 2nd Tuesday of every month"

True, but first somebody has to get hacked, report it to Microsoft, then they have to investigate and determine the problem and develop a fix. That hole they plugged with yesterday's update has probably been in your software since you've had it and you've been living with it all that time. Since they come out with a security patch most every month, it seems obvious to me that the software has never been completely secure.


While it is true that some holes may be quite old many go undiscovered for many years. MS used to be lax about fixes and wait to add them service packs but before Win 7 shipped they got far more aggressive and released them monthly.
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
KE4DRN
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 09:20:52 PM »

Hi

You can get a nice used Lenovo from IBM with Win 7 Pro,
4GB memory on a fresh off lease desktops starting at $152 and up.
Laptops and monitors also available.

Use promo code pref

http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/content/home/store_icue/en_US/pshp.html

IBM has free UPS shipping too.

73 james
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K8AC
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Posts: 1478




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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2014, 06:42:59 AM »

Quote
I have a 1TB SATA drive as a second drive, can I use that as a storage area for my files during the clean install on the primary 127 GB HD, or should I use the 1TB as primary and the 127 as the secondary, the 127 is a 10,000 rpm SATA where the 1TB is 7000 rpm?  Both WD.  They keep talking about external drives for the file backups.  I think the wife has a couple TB externals if I need to do that.

I just upgraded my station PC and installed a Samsung SSD (120 GB) as the boot drive, with a 1 TB hard drive for data.  The SSD is a very significant performance upgrade for not much money (less than $100 for Samsung 840).  If that's not appealing, at least download one of the performance analysis programs to check the true speed of the hard drives you have on hand.  I used to consider hard drives of a particular capacity as all having about the same performance, but found that's far from true.  And, some of the older 128 GB drives are far slower than modern  1 TB drives.  If you don't want to go the SSD route, I'd at least make sure that the boot drive is your fastest drive (as measured by analysis program).  Don't just assume that a drive that spins faster is going to give the best performance. 
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K1ZJH
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Posts: 1185




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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2014, 09:13:34 AM »

Or simply forget MS and go over to Ubantu or similar Smiley
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W8JX
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Posts: 6664




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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2014, 09:37:07 AM »

Quote
I have a 1TB SATA drive as a second drive, can I use that as a storage area for my files during the clean install on the primary 127 GB HD, or should I use the 1TB as primary and the 127 as the secondary, the 127 is a 10,000 rpm SATA where the 1TB is 7000 rpm?  Both WD.  They keep talking about external drives for the file backups.  I think the wife has a couple TB externals if I need to do that.

I just upgraded my station PC and installed a Samsung SSD (120 GB) as the boot drive, with a 1 TB hard drive for data.  The SSD is a very significant performance upgrade for not much money (less than $100 for Samsung 840).  If that's not appealing, at least download one of the performance analysis programs to check the true speed of the hard drives you have on hand.  I used to consider hard drives of a particular capacity as all having about the same performance, but found that's far from true.  And, some of the older 128 GB drives are far slower than modern  1 TB drives.  If you don't want to go the SSD route, I'd at least make sure that the boot drive is your fastest drive (as measured by analysis program).  Don't just assume that a drive that spins faster is going to give the best performance. 

Rotation speed has a big impact on read/write speed. Also a very large drive can be faster if it has more platters and heads as they work in parallel. Another factor is size of cache on drive itself. 16 meg is the norm now for 5400 rpm but some have 32 or 64meg caches. Drives made 3 or more years ago had 4 meg or less and 4500 rpm for slower read write speeds too. 7200 is main stream now.  I would not buy a replacement drive today that was only 5400 rpm.
 
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N3DT
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Posts: 667




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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2014, 07:11:14 AM »

I used HD Tach to measure the 3 drives I have in the bay, and the new TB drive is the slug.

WD800BB 74.5GB
Random access 13.1ms
CPU utulization 1%
Average read 33.2 MB/s
Burst speed 92.8 MB/s
Sequential Read Speed 40-25 MB/s

WD1500AHFD 127GB
Random access 8.2ms
CPU util 3%
Average read 74.6MB/s
Burst Speed 135.2MB/s
Seq Read 90-50 MB/s

WD10EZEX 931GB
Random Access 14.9ms
CPU Util 14%
Average read 12.5MB/s
Burst Speed 12.8MB/s
Seq Read Speed 12.5MB/s

I'll be using the WD Raptor 10000 rpm one as the main drive, it beats the others by a long shot.  The WD800BB  is probably 10 years old, but it seems to hold up there pretty good.  As far as the TB drive, I got it for $60 so what do you expect?  Looks like we're expecting a foot of snot Monday, so as long as the power doesn't go off, that may be a good time to do it. Or wait until it goes off and am on my generator.  I've got the email prog ready to move from outlook to Thunderbird and all the stuff copied to the 1TB drive.

Those refurbished units looked tempting, but most of them were not in stock, plus it's sort of hard to figure out what your are really getting, or if I can use any of my old stuff in them.

Dave
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W8JX
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Posts: 6664




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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2014, 03:30:45 PM »

I used HD Tach to measure the 3 drives I have in the bay, and the new TB drive is the slug.

WD800BB 74.5GB
Random access 13.1ms
CPU utulization 1%
Average read 33.2 MB/s
Burst speed 92.8 MB/s
Sequential Read Speed 40-25 MB/s

WD1500AHFD 127GB
Random access 8.2ms
CPU util 3%
Average read 74.6MB/s
Burst Speed 135.2MB/s
Seq Read 90-50 MB/s

WD10EZEX 931GB
Random Access 14.9ms
CPU Util 14%
Average read 12.5MB/s
Burst Speed 12.8MB/s
Seq Read Speed 12.5MB/s

I'll be using the WD Raptor 10000 rpm one as the main drive, it beats the others by a long shot.  The WD800BB  is probably 10 years old, but it seems to hold up there pretty good.  As far as the TB drive, I got it for $60 so what do you expect?  Looks like we're expecting a foot of snot Monday, so as long as the power doesn't go off, that may be a good time to do it. Or wait until it goes off and am on my generator.  I've got the email prog ready to move from outlook to Thunderbird and all the stuff copied to the 1TB drive.

Those refurbished units looked tempting, but most of them were not in stock, plus it's sort of hard to figure out what your are really getting, or if I can use any of my old stuff in them.5

Dave

Refurbished drives are just used drives with a low level format to lock out any bad sectors
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You can embrace new computer/tablet technology and change with it or cling to old fall far behind....
N3DT
Member

Posts: 667




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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2014, 06:32:41 PM »

I meant refurbished computer systems, like the IBM stuff mentioned earlier.  I wouldn't waste my money on a refurbished HD.
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KE4DRN
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Posts: 3734




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« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2014, 10:03:26 PM »

Hi Dave,

Yes they sell out fast, keep checking a few times a day,
you can also get email alerts when they have promos,
they even have a one year warranty at no cost at this time,
don't worry, they'll rebuild a lot more!

Visit http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/default.page
select drivers and software, then enter the model number,
7733-1cu for example and you will get the specs on the machine,
access to all drivers and the HMM hardware maintenance manual.

I just installed Lubuntu on an older Thinkpad, nice O/S.

73 james
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K2GWK
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Posts: 532


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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2014, 07:50:22 AM »

If I was the OP and was set on the "Tablet/Desktop integration" concept I would hold off to Windows 9 which is coming in April 2015 less than 3 years after the Windows 8 release. Windows 8 was a failed attempt by Microsoft to copy Apple's OSX integration of the MAC and Ipad. Windows 9 will be an attempt to tighten up the tablet desktop integration.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/windows-9-release-date-news-and-rumours-1029245/2

I only speak for my self, but if it were me, I would buy a MAC and if it had to, run windows on my MAC as a dual boot using Bootcamp.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 07:53:13 AM by K2GWK » Logged

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Lawn Guyland, New York

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W8JX
Member

Posts: 6664




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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2014, 10:55:24 AM »

If I was the OP and was set on the "Tablet/Desktop integration" concept I would hold off to Windows 9 which is coming in April 2015 less than 3 years after the Windows 8 release. Windows 8 was a failed attempt by Microsoft to copy Apple's OSX integration of the MAC and Ipad. Windows 9 will be an attempt to tighten up the tablet desktop integration.

Little reason to wait as 9 will simply be a tweaked 8.1 just like Win 7 is little more than tweaked Vista. Also I would not call it a failed attempt. It is a big transition from a desktop style OS world to a tablet world friendly OS. I have 8.1 on a laptop and 8.1RT on a tablet and like them both.
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N3DT
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Posts: 667




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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2014, 05:00:37 PM »

Well, it's a done deal.  Today I installed Win 7 and despite a few glitches it went not too bad.  Main thing was the new DVD would not complete the Win 7 DVD and I finally used my old Sony DVD and it went right through.  Small issue restoring the profile on Thunderbird, but finally got it done, Firefox profile came through quick and just like before.  The biggest issue is the updates, it took over 3 hours to update and I'm only about half done.  I have limited download/upload allowance, 10GB/mo and I'm down to 3.5GB at this point with a week to go until reload, I'm on hughes.net satellite.  Thinking about going to a local super WiFi with no limits, but need to check them out.

I'm wondering if I can add memory now, I have 2 one GB DDR2 800 sticks in 2 slots, and 2 slots free and wondering if I can stick a couple of 2GB sticks in them if Win 7 will do anything with it.  I keep seeing something about 16GB ram for win7, even Home premium.  Computer seems to be running just as good if not a bit better with the 64 bit system vs the XP.  Doesn't seem to be so many glitches in startup with 7, it loads and is ready to go in 60 seconds now, used to take me around 2-2.5m to start up. Of course I haven't got all those startup things going on yet. Win7 seems to manage the com ports a bit different than XP, they don't seem to show up unless they're connected.  Word and Excel 2010 load up a lot faster than before.

Dave
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KD0REQ
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Posts: 1047




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« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2014, 12:01:48 PM »

experts disagree and say the risk will be very high with XP.

why are they hacking?  two reasons... bot building and cash stealing.

while the cash stealing will decrease over time in favor of win 7 and 8.x, it's still out there.

pundits anticipate that the patches Microsoft has been sending across all platforms are fixing mostly the same holes and overflows.  so they are studying win 7 and 8.x in particular, disassembling them, and testing the flaws against XP.  banking the flaws.

as soon as XP is orphaned in the wild, expect the first waves of attack to start.  in addition, the history of anti-virus and threatbuster software is abandonment within a year or so of end of support by Microsoft.

so you're going to be on the streets in Dodge without a hat or a gun in short order with XP.
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KA6MLE
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Posts: 89




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« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2014, 12:13:38 PM »

I have 3 Desktop Computers, 2 laptops with every operating system from Win 98, XP, Vista and Win 7. Very rarely do I have security problems on any of the operating systems (a couple of virus problems on the Win 7 laptop.) The Win 98 laptop is not connected to the internet. My Ham Radio Desktop has XP and it's a Pentium 4 and I have no reason to replace the operating system or computer. I only have the free version AVG anti-Virus on it and have had zero problems with malware, viruses, etc. I do keep a complete clone drive of every computer I have in case I ever do have a un-fixable problem. It's VERY easy to make a clone with the free software --> Macrium. I don't do any banking or any transactions on this computer so I'm not too worried about it! Unless the hackers really need to spy on my PSK31 QSOs don't think they would find much to interest them.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 12:23:43 PM by KA6MLE » Logged
N3DT
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Posts: 667




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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2014, 02:42:45 PM »

As far as I know, I've never had any problems with virus, etc. Been using the free version of AVG and also SpyBot now and then.  I never find anything.  But I've also heard these programs only find 20% of the baddies.  One just needs to be careful where you go and what you do.

So far Windoze 7 seems pretty clean.  I just copied all my docs to the 1TB drive, unplugged it for safety and installed 7 on the fast HD after deleting the XP partition.  Lowest windows experience number is the RAM and that's still 5.5. I don't much care for the 'Libraries' though, I can make my own folders and remember where they are, plus a shortcut on the desktop to them. Nice that it doesn't seem to have all those 'startup' things in the taskbar to slow things down. It boots up in less than 1 minute now.  The memory level in Task Manager is higher than it was in XP all the time.

Installed Meinburg NTP and it's strange, can't find the program, but it seems to be working.  I can find the NTP events in the event log and so far it's keeping good time, within a second of the atomic clock in the room.  Closer than the windows nist stuff which always seemed to be off by 3-5 seconds.

Dave
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