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Author Topic: No radio transmissions allowed  (Read 34195 times)
W9FIB
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Posts: 885




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« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2014, 08:49:02 AM »

As I recall the American citizens were in a similar situation back in 1775 or thereabout, as back then when the time is right it will all get sorted out. Wink

Only when this country stops blaming everything on somebody besides themselves and unite as 1 group of people instead 300 +/- million individuals. Right now you couldn't get this country to agree on a cup of coffee, and you think you can get them to agree to changing governments?

Just look here at this thread. You can't even get a small group of a small group of the population to agree on anything. And you think some magic thing will happen and all will unite? I don't see it happening now or ever.

Like I have said before...then reality sets in.
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K2GWK
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Posts: 524


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« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2014, 05:05:31 PM »

We The People" that is reality Live and let live. Message to the arrogant, pompous few trying to control the many others. Things change!

Hope floats


73

God Bless America.


Yep things change. Americans are giving up their freedoms every day. And what people say really does not matter. The US government makes new regulations every day to restrict what we can and can't do. Last I saw Obamacare was running  56% disapproval. (this was an example, not political commentary) If the government responds to the people, why does this law exist? Where is the change? Same question for all the other freedoms we have given up.

The hope is floating on a sea of excrement.

Nice rant, but it has no bearing on this discussion as the government could give a rats ass if you live in an HOA or not. It's a "Homeowners Association" and people, not the government decide the rules in an HOA. The government does not want to become involved, which is why the FCC won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
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Guy
Lawn Guyland, New York

K2GWK Website
W9FIB
Member

Posts: 885




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« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2014, 05:30:23 PM »

We The People" that is reality Live and let live. Message to the arrogant, pompous few trying to control the many others. Things change!

Hope floats


73

God Bless America.


Yep things change. Americans are giving up their freedoms every day. And what people say really does not matter. The US government makes new regulations every day to restrict what we can and can't do. Last I saw Obamacare was running  56% disapproval. (this was an example, not political commentary) If the government responds to the people, why does this law exist? Where is the change? Same question for all the other freedoms we have given up.

The hope is floating on a sea of excrement.

Nice rant, but it has no bearing on this discussion as the government could give a rats ass if you live in an HOA or not. It's a "Homeowners Association" and people, not the government decide the rules in an HOA. The government does not want to become involved, which is why the FCC won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Well I don't live in one because I did my homework. I did what I preach, not preach what I should have done after not doing it. And signing an HOA agreement you are giving up some of your rights. I will never sign one.

And your wrong also because after you sign one, if properly written, the government can become involved. Its called the judicial branch. And they can pass judgement on you.

And the government would give a "rats ass" if there are enough votes to be gained or contribution to their election fund, or both. Which is why unpopular laws and regulations are passed on to us. Even when the majority disagrees with them.
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12972




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« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2014, 05:43:58 PM »

"It's a "Homeowners Association" and people, not the government decide the rules in an HOA"

Provided that the HOA rules don't violate any government regulation. The HOA cannot prevent you from putting up a satellite dish because the government says they can't. The HOA can prevent you from putting up a ham antenna because the government refuses to tell them that them that they can't.

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K4PIH
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Posts: 30




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« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2014, 09:03:05 AM »

If a person buys a home and any CCR's don't mention antennas, then some HOA Hitler decides to ban antennas and they amend the CCR to ban them, can they enforce that on people that had antennas before the amendment? I used to rent in an area that had a no antenna visable from the street rule which meant you could have sat dishes and TV antennas but not visible by the HOA patrol when they drove by. There was a ham living on the next block that had a 60ft tower with a tri-bander that the HOA Nazi's wanted to get rid of, but they couldnt force him because he bought the house before the HOA was organized and did not sign any CCR's. I know it went to court many times but he always held them off becasue he bought before the CCR and HOA was established.

My question in a nut shell is: Can an HOQ change the rules to ban specific things after you buy a house in the development? Is that legal?
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12972




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« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2014, 09:18:38 AM »

" Can an HOQ change the rules to ban specific things after you buy a house in the development? Is that legal?"

It depends, in my experience. In the case where the home was purchased before the HOA or any CC&Rs existed then that home is not part of the HOA and they have no control over it, other than city or county regulations that they can have enforced.

In the case where the HOA existed at the time of purchase but had no antenna restrictions, it depend on what exact clauses were in the CC&Rs at the time. If it includes a clause that you agree to abide by any future rules that the HOA implements then they can probably make you take down the antenna when they add the no antenna rule. If there is no such clause then the antenna is probably "grandfathered". However, most times if you make any significant changes to the antenna then you loose your exemption from the rules. For example, if you add another 10-foot section to a tower or add an additional antenna or a much larger antenna then you loose.

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KF7CG
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Posts: 863




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« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2014, 11:36:51 AM »

Most CCRs regarding homeowners associations that I have seen during my too prevalent bouts of house hunting have simply stated that the property owner agrees to becoming a member of the HOA and abiding by those rules and regulations that are from time to time established or ammended by the HOA. In other words they have ultimate control.

The second thing that I have been warned of by attorney friends is that if your property is in a position where it acrues benefits from the existance and actions of the HOA you can be held to be governed by it though you never agreed to it and it is not in you CC&Rs. Simply if you live at the end of a long road and the HOA has taken over road maintenance because it passes through a large stretch of the neighborhood, the same for snow removal you benefit from the actions of the HOA and can be held to pay dues and be bound by the rules of the HOA even if you didn't agree to it. Otherwise find a different way to access your property.

KF7CG
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W0MT
Member

Posts: 173




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« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2014, 12:01:53 PM »

Some CC&Rs don't say anything about antennas. HOWEVER, the CC&Rs may say something like this:

"The Architectural Review Committee shall develop bylaws concerning any external modifications made to any property in Bizzaro Acres. Such bylaws shall be for the purpose of maintaining the look and feel of Bizzaro Acres. Every property in Bizzaro Acres shall abide with all such bylaws.”

Sometimes it isn’t spelled out as clearly as this.
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12972




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« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2014, 02:50:00 PM »

I'd be more than a little upset if some judge told me that I have to remove my tower and beam because some HOA took over maintenance of a road that I drive on.

In my area the road maintenance usually goes the other direction. The homeowners or the builder have to maintain the road until there are enough homes present for the State to take over maintenance.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 02:54:03 PM by AA4PB » Logged
W1AJO
Member

Posts: 108




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« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2014, 06:04:32 AM »

Just heard of a situation in CA where all renters in a condo complex were given an update to the CC&R's stating that no ham radio operations were allowed.  I don't have a copy of the letter at hand, so can't tell you the exact verbiage, but this sounds bogus to me.

Does this also mean that folks can't have baby monitors, wireless routers, remote doorbell buttons and other such radio transmission devices??  This just seems like a bit of overkill.

Has anyone else ever heard of this kind of nonsense?  I tried doing a search on here for similar stuff, but my search-foo isn't working too well today.

In 2005 when I lived in Florida our CCRs prohibited "radio transmitters".  An HOA boad member came by my house to tell me to take down my dipole antenna that was up in my back yard.  We had a nice talk and I told him I would be happy to do so if the HOA was going to enforce the rule on everyone.  He looked puzzled then I explained to him that "radio transmitters" included remote garage door openers, remote car door openers, baby monitors, UHF TV remotes, wireless RF toys, and his cell phone.  He was shocked and not happy with me.  The HOA board then contacted their lawyer.  The lawyer told them that they could not enforce the rule on me, that I was right, and that they needed to change the rules. This lead to the discovery that half of the houses in the comunity were not covered by the CCRs (mine was sadly) as the developer did not file the proper documents with the county.  They had to get the the homeowers who were not part of the HOA to voluntarily join the HOA.  I left in 2007 and the mess had not been sorted out. My antennas stayed up.
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RENTON481
Member

Posts: 72




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« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2014, 11:22:48 AM »

I'll preface my comment by saying I'm not a ham, I'm an SWL.

But if I were in the original poster's shoes, I'd operate covertly, using an indoor antenna of some sort. And don't tell anyone about being a ham. Unless you're causing interference to a neighbor's TV, and they somehow figure out that it is coming from your transmitter, how are they going to know?

Or -- join the board of your HOA. Sometimes you have to get political to get changes made, and that could mean something as simple as getting involved on your local HOA board. 
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KF7CG
Member

Posts: 863




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« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2014, 02:21:01 PM »

The time is coming, courtesy of the NEC and  building codes enforcement, when all will know you are operating. It won't be because you interfere with their Stereos, TVs, or other electronics, it will be because you turn off their lights.

AFCI breakers are now mandated for all new construction and are required retrofit to come to code if major work is done. Look under RFI at the threads on this to see just how bad this can be and it is just starting. Five watts on 17 meters and crash all the breakers in a neighboring home that is 400 feet from the antenna.

I expect that many new developments will have the No Trnasmitting rule and it will be written so as to be enforcable. Of course the local police, fire, ambulance, and other similar service may have the same effect but then again maybe not the problem can be frequency dependant.

KF7CG
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W1AJO
Member

Posts: 108




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« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2014, 05:10:09 PM »

The time is coming, courtesy of the NEC and  building codes enforcement, when all will know you are operating. It won't be because you interfere with their Stereos, TVs, or other electronics, it will be because you turn off their lights.

AFCI breakers are now mandated for all new construction and are required retrofit to come to code if major work is done. Look under RFI at the threads on this to see just how bad this can be and it is just starting. Five watts on 17 meters and crash all the breakers in a neighboring home that is 400 feet from the antenna.

I expect that many new developments will have the No Trnasmitting rule and it will be written so as to be enforcable. Of course the local police, fire, ambulance, and other similar service may have the same effect but then again maybe not the problem can be frequency dependant.

KF7CG

See:

http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-helps-manufacturer-to-resolve-arc-fault-circuit-interrupter-rfi-problems
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AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12972




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« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2014, 05:22:10 PM »

If you go read the RFI thread on arc-fault breakers you'll learn that those ARRL approved "ham" AFCI breakers didn't work in one hams case. In addition, only one mfg cooperated with the ARRL tests. Like many RFI issues there are a variety of variables that need to be accounted for. These include the sensitivity of the breaker to the RF, the frequency of the RF, the length of wiring connected to the breaker, the location of the antenna in relationship to the wires connected to the breaker, and the transmitter power. The fact that the breaker doesn't trip when located in the ARRL lab when W1AW is keyed doesn't guarantee that it won't trip when wired in a home and subjected to a more typical ham installation.

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