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Author Topic: PayPal (or lack thereof)  (Read 15579 times)
K9AIM
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 10:44:29 AM »

When Paypal was newer, it seemed like a lot of hams would revert to the old standard of Money Order only.  Some seemed to mistrust it because it was new.  Most of us from the pre-internet age also had an initial weariness and mistrust for online banking or purchases -- I suppose there exists a natural  evolutionary distrust of the new. 

After an initial hesitance, I always found Paypal was great for both buyer and seller, but I have never had a problem with it as a seller.  As a buyer I had one problem on eBay with a rig the guy collected for but had not shipped and eBay wasn't helpful but when I contacted Paypal and they saw the discrepancy in what the seller had communicated to me and they saw the item had not been delivered by the shipper they called him and refunded me my money instantly.


 
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K9AIM
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2014, 02:25:39 PM »

edited previous post info to make the info more accurate:

Amazon has a very customer friendly return policy url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/? for items shipped and sold by Amazon and for third party sellers that are FBA (Fulfillment by Amazon http://services.amazon.com/content/fulfillment-by-amazon.htm )

But for third party items at Amazon listed as: "shipped and sold by _____" the individual sellers return policy comes into play. http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=537802 

It can be confusing surfing Amazon's website with regard to third party sellers unless you look out for these distinctions:

1. "Ships and sold by Amazon"
2. "Fulfillment by Amazon"
3. "ships and sold by ____."

(2 and 3 above involve third party sellers)
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KA5IPF
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2014, 06:42:34 PM »

Now, I have traded through quite a few forums, an only in the ham forums do I see such a high percentage of sellers making this demand.  I assume it is either the demographic of the sellers, or the nature of the items being sold.

I have had extended "discussions" with sellers whom will not take Paypal...  On the whole they seem an unreasonable lot, and hence the reason I will not deal with them, I attempt to only deal with reasonable people.  The gist of no-Paypal seller's argument is they fear that the purchaser


I don't take Paypal for a very simple reason, it costs me money. Since I won't give them access to my business bank account the only way I can get money from them is have them mail me a check, in 7-10 business days and for a $7.50 charge. On top of the 3% they charge. I will use Paypal if that's what someone wants but I won't accept it. Very simple. Besides almost anything I sell has a 30 day warranty, if not it's noted.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 06:45:29 PM by KA5IPF » Logged
AA4PB
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 06:50:48 PM »

I opened up a free business checking account that I used only for PayPal. When payments were made and money was transferred into the account I transferred the money right back out and into my primary account, keeping only a small balance in the "PayPal" account. I never had any problems, but I didn't have to give PayPal access to accounts that contained much money.

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K8AXW
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 09:20:14 PM »

PB:  That's exactly what I do.  If it gets hacked or whatever, it's going to be a very small amount.  Matter of fact I have that account burned down to $25.00 at the present time.   Roll Eyes
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K9AIM
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2014, 12:50:31 AM »

PB:  That's exactly what I do.  If it gets hacked or whatever, it's going to be a very small amount.  Matter of fact I have that account burned down to $25.00 at the present time.   Roll Eyes

i don't know the exact odds, but i'd bet your bank is more likely to rip you off than Paypal is  Wink

anyone had a problem with Paypal access to their bank account?  it seems to me that if there is an unauthorized transaction to your account it undermines both Paypal and your bank so both will go to great lengths to protect your money.  Paypal is only in  business because it works.  right  Huh  anyone  Huh
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NK7Z
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2014, 04:43:50 AM »

...Like you I've no beef with PayPal or eBay...... so far so good.

I've had my problems with paypal.  I appreciate those who haven't being open minded, but I don't see the problem.  For some people, sorry, no paypal equates to sorry, no deal--just as for some, sorry ONLY paypal equates to the same!  

For myself (and I've stated this before) I accept only post office money order simply because I had problems with paypal.  I insist on POMOs because you can go to just about any US post office to verify them.  Most larger post offices also can cash them, or, once verified, you can comfortably deposit them in your bank account without wondering if they're good!

End point--to each their own.  If you and the seller or buyer can't agree to a payment method, it's simply "NO DEAL!"  No need to go sniveling about it, take it in stride and look for another unit/item, even if the seller didn't specify in their ad.  Sometimes those ads are by the word, and hams are known to be a cheap bunch!
I pretty much agree with everything you say here but the part about not putting it in the ad...  If you don't take Paypal, spend the extra twenty cents and add two words!  This might save the person calling you a few moments of their lives--  time they will never get back.  After all, it takes you a one time gesture of kindness to keep several people from taking THEIR time and writing you to be told no...  Don't you think it is rather discourteous to not fully state the method of payment, when Paypal is so prevalent?  I do agree with you about Hams being cheap...  Smiley  We are having a discussion about saving twenty cents.  Smiley
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Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
NK7Z
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2014, 05:28:21 AM »

Now, I have traded through quite a few forums, an only in the ham forums do I see such a high percentage of sellers making this demand.  I assume it is either the demographic of the sellers, or the nature of the items being sold.

I have had extended "discussions" with sellers whom will not take Paypal...  On the whole they seem an unreasonable lot, and hence the reason I will not deal with them, I attempt to only deal with reasonable people.  The gist of no-Paypal seller's argument is they fear that the purchaser


I don't take Paypal for a very simple reason, it costs me money. Since I won't give them access to my business bank account the only way I can get money from them is have them mail me a check, in 7-10 business days and for a $7.50 charge. On top of the 3% they charge. I will use Paypal if that's what someone wants but I won't accept it. Very simple. Besides almost anything I sell has a 30 day warranty, if not it's noted.

So you sound like a person who is selling a few items now and then, maybe more...  Start a second account for Paypal transactions...  If you can afford to disenfranchise some buyers, (because your business is good today), that is your right...  I will never deal with you, but that's the way it goes for both of us. 

My guess is that you use a Credit Card to purchase things...  Apply the same argument that allows you to use a CC to your own business.  That sort of ends the 3% part of things... 

Here is the rub for me...  I don't know you, you don't know me.  If I am going to send you a few thousand bucks because I trust an email or an on line ad you posted, for an item, I want a 3rd party involved because I don't trust you...  It has nothing to do with you as a person, but to the world in general...  Here is an example of what can happen, and why I use Paypal for ALL purchases on the net...  In person is a different story totally BTW.

I ordered and paid for a NEW tuner, not used, but new, and not from an individual, but from a business...  It never showed up...  No phone calls answered, all communications stopped.  I even called the seller to insure that there was stock on hand before the sale, and ordered the same day.  He wanted a CC, or a MO.  I told him no, and paid with Paypal.  That was the last communications I had with him...    He had become unreachable the instant the Paypal transaction happened.  I got no order confirmation from the vendor, no email, nothing even indicating he got my money.  His web site was still up, and taking orders, his phone still rang...  I tried to contact him via email, and phone for three weeks.  In short he simply cheated me... I complained to Paypal, 30 days later I got my money back...  Later I found many, many postings from many others who had the same problem, with the same vendor.  BTW, this vendor appears to no longer take Paypal. 

So if I have to check each purchase I make on the net, by Goggling "Vendor_Name_Here sucks", or I can just use Paypal, and let them do it for me, I only do business with people that use Paypal...  BTW, that new tuner I mentioned above came with a 30 day warranty as well... So your stating you have a 30 day warranty is meaningless to me as a buyer... 

When I buy something, I trust that you will fulfill your part of the order, and will verify that trust by sending you a few thousand bucks...  I simply no longer have that trust level in the Amateur Radio community.  Maybe 30 years ago, yes, but not today...  No chance...  I want a 3rd party involved.  And, on top of all of that, it is simpler, and faster for ME, the purchaser, to use Paypal, than to go get a money order and mail it to you.

If I sell, or if I buy, it is the cost of doing business on the net now...  As I said up thread, I will be selling an entire station, Pro III, PS, Rigblaster, etc., I'll eat the cost of PayPal so the buyer knows that I am for real, and am willing to stand by my equipment.  BTW, I got an Elecraft K3, so the Pro III, and supporting equipment, are no longer needed.

Would I like the old days back, when you could buy a rig from a fellow in a different state by calling him and asking the condition, you bet, but those days are long gone now...  Sad to say.  It is too bad folks like you and I find ourselves at odds because of things like this, but alas, it is the way of things now...
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Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
K1CJS
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2014, 05:39:53 AM »

...Like you I've no beef with PayPal or eBay...... so far so good.

I've had my problems with paypal.  I appreciate those who haven't being open minded....

I pretty much agree with everything you say here but the part about not putting it in the ad...  If you don't take Paypal, spend the extra twenty cents and add two words!  This might save the person calling you a few moments of their lives--  time they will never get back.  After all, it takes you a one time gesture of kindness to keep several people from taking THEIR time and writing you to be told no...  Don't you think it is rather discourteous to not fully state the method of payment, when Paypal is so prevalent?  I do agree with you about Hams being cheap...  Smiley  We are having a discussion about saving twenty cents.  Smiley

You're right about that!  I kind of didn't express myself well--it isn't really the idea of not saying so, but the fact that the seller may not have enough room TO say so.  Besides the idea of cost per word, there is also the length of the ads in some places, as in the number of words the ad can contain.

But--as I said--you're right.  It is discourteous not to say "No PayPal" if you won't accept it!  73!
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AA4PB
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2014, 05:59:18 AM »

I've never had any problem with PayPal. I am just opposed to giving anyone open access to withdraw money from my checking account for any reason. I want to be in control of when payments are made and not have someone just reach in and take money from my account whenever they want. I had a friend some years ago who permitted automatic withdrawals for her house payment. One month the mortgage company accidentally made two withdrawals. She didn't know it until checks started bouncing for other bill payments and bad check fees started adding up. The mortgage company's solution was that they would simply not make a withdrawal the next month. She had to borrow money to cover all the other bounced checks to keep the utilities on.

On the rare occasion that I am forced to make automatic payments I have them take it from my credit card where I have some recourse if they take money that I don't owe them. You have a lot less legal protection for checking accounts (which includes ATM cards).

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W8JX
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2014, 08:52:02 AM »

I've never had any problem with PayPal. I am just opposed to giving anyone open access to withdraw money from my checking account for any reason. I want to be in control of when payments are made and not have someone just reach in and take money from my account whenever they want. I had a friend some years ago who permitted automatic withdrawals for her house payment. One month the mortgage company accidentally made two withdrawals. She didn't know it until checks started bouncing for other bill payments and bad check fees started adding up. The mortgage company's solution was that they would simply not make a withdrawal the next month. She had to borrow money to cover all the other bounced checks to keep the utilities on.

On the rare occasion that I am forced to make automatic payments I have them take it from my credit card where I have some recourse if they take money that I don't owe them. You have a lot less legal protection for checking accounts (which includes ATM cards).

I use a separate account with very limited funds that I link to PayPal. In the age of online banking it is easy to track what is going on even with a smart phone. As far as other payment, I control it with online electronic payments that I setup not by granting creditors access to my account.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2014, 09:57:47 AM »

...Like you I've no beef with PayPal or eBay...... so far so good.

I've had my problems with paypal.  I appreciate those who haven't being open minded....

I pretty much agree with everything you say here but the part about not putting it in the ad...  If you don't take Paypal, spend the extra twenty cents and add two words!  This might save the person calling you a few moments of their lives--  time they will never get back.  After all, it takes you a one time gesture of kindness to keep several people from taking THEIR time and writing you to be told no...  Don't you think it is rather discourteous to not fully state the method of payment, when Paypal is so prevalent?  I do agree with you about Hams being cheap...  Smiley  We are having a discussion about saving twenty cents.  Smiley

You're right about that!  I kind of didn't express myself well--it isn't really the idea of not saying so, but the fact that the seller may not have enough room TO say so.  Besides the idea of cost per word, there is also the length of the ads in some places, as in the number of words the ad can contain.

But--as I said--you're right.  It is discourteous not to say "No PayPal" if you won't accept it!  73!

OMG A reasonable person!!!!  I had not thought of a word limit!  73's my friend!
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For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
K1CJS
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2014, 12:38:40 PM »

Thank you very much!  There are some here (other than me) that actually try to be, but sometimes even we lose it--if we're blasted over and over again for no reason.  Take care and 73!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 12:43:47 PM by K1CJS » Logged
NK7Z
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2014, 02:14:31 PM »

Thank you very much!  There are some here (other than me) that actually try to be, but sometimes even we lose it--if we're blasted over and over again for no reason.  Take care and 73!
It is actually really good to find reasonable people still left!  THANK YOU!
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For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
KE4DRN
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2014, 04:51:56 PM »

hi,

Most sellers do not want to pay the service fee for a paypal transaction.

I have been using paypal for years on ebay and on the used lists,
no problems at all.

I have a $1.00 month fee personal checking account at the credit union,
only used for paypal (ebay and other) transactions. 

Dedicated email too, any paypal or ebay mail that goes to other accounts is filtered out.

They take 3% of my transaction total, allows me to take credit cards as well as echecks.
Would cost me more time to fill out bank deposit slip or sit at atm and feed it the money orders,
plus gas to drive to the bank.

73 james

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